Poll
Poll closed Question: Toilet Teaser: Which scenario is most likely?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Kramnik is cheating in the toilet    
  6 (8.2%)
Kram wants to unsettle Topa by these actions    
  3 (4.1%)
Topa wants to unsettle Kramnik by accusation    
  36 (49.3%)
Kramnik has a health problem that is the cause    
  17 (23.3%)
Other    
  11 (15.1%)




Total votes: 73
« Created by: J-dog on: 09/28/06 at 17:31:03 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Tales from the Toilet... (Read 58579 times)
IMJohnCox
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #149 - 10/20/06 at 11:39:13
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Kramnik’s objection was based on lots of other things besides 3.18.3, all of which Gijssen doesn’t discuss. Indeed it’s not clear he’s even seen the contract itself (and why should he have?).

Interesting he says he was waiting for a letter from Ilyumzhinov before game five. That’s exactly what I thought he should have done. I don’t think that letter’s been made public, nor indeed the fact of its existence.

He doesn’t say anything about when the tapes were released, when he found out about it, and when it stopped.

I guess arbiters are like judges. You get law men and merits men, as we call them. Gijssen clearly is a law man, and as usual with law men clearly cannot formally be criticised, especially since it’s apparent that Ilyumzhinov was given the option of exercising his power under 3.23 and decided not to. (at least I assume that's what he was doing; one hopes this power was called to his attention) In some situations however a merits man can achieve better results. If Lord Denning had been the arbiter I don’t think this would have happened.

As katar will know, most rules allow for following to the letter in anumber of different directions. That's why he and I are able to eke out a living.

One thing I do agree with GG about strongly: Seirawan owes him an apology.
  
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katar
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #148 - 10/19/06 at 12:47:12
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Keano wrote on 10/19/06 at 08:07:55:
I thought earlier he could have showed a bit more common sense rather than following the rulebook completely.....

This sentence strikes me as a paradox-- I think that following rules to the letter makes the most sense.  After all, that is in fact the whole point of having rules!  Rules protect against arbitrary and unpredictable decisionmaking.   

I agree with GG 100%.

I noticed that he completely avoided any discussion of the language, 
Quote:
Clause 3.18.3., Schedule 2 of the contract:
“After the World Chess Championship Committee agrees with the Organizers on the arrangements in respect of the tournament hall, facilities etc. etc. etc……., no objections from the participants shall be acceptable as long as the conditions are in accordance with the rights of the players granted in their agreements.”


I won't rehash my analysis of this clause (it is set out above in this very thread), but it is noteworthy that he chose not even to address it at all!  This clause is the basis of Kramnik's objection, which is in my opinion not terribly difficult to answer squarely. interesting that he would ignore it........
  

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Keano
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #147 - 10/19/06 at 08:07:55
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Yes the same article is in Chess Cafe as well - http://www.chesscafe.com/geurt/geurt.htm

Of course he is quite correct in that he followed the rules and there was in fact some behind the scenes activity I didnt know about also. I thought earlier he could have showed a bit more common sense rather than following the rulebook completely, but I suppose from his point of view it is unfair to criticise him - the real problems were not of his making but led from the appeals committee decision.
  
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #146 - 10/19/06 at 07:50:19
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As I expected Gijssen stated his view:
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3436

I quite agree with his line of reasoning
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #145 - 10/14/06 at 23:55:49
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'Let us not talk about sad things'.
  
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #144 - 10/14/06 at 01:33:10
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I think the question of whether or not he sues has a lot to do with the contract, as has been pointed out.  It's one thing to threaten to sue as a psy-ops counter-strategy, but unless Kramnik has a lot of money to burn, he won't sue unless he can win.

The wildcards here are what happens to FIDE-Kramnik relations and how the 2007 World Championship (with or without Topalov?) turns out.  If relations remain sour, it might make sense to sue to try and prevent problems in the future.

Of course, it would be nice if FIDE just agreed to some reforms in how these things are run, that lawsuits be averted, and everyone go home happy.  But we're talking about FIDE...
  
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #143 - 10/14/06 at 00:41:44
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In the interests of "playing nice" and unification, I hope he drops it.  He gained more than he could have expected from this match-- he won outright under difficult (hostile?) circumstances and gained a ton of goodwill and respect.  Even hero-worship at times, too.  VK may even find new avenues for product endorsements...   Wink

That being said, VK is entitled to his day in court if he wishes.  While his suit is legally available, it may not be good for chess.  (The same is my opinion of the original bathroom protest.)  If there is a suit, at least it will be between FIDE and Kramnik, not Topalov*.  That means no more Danailov and his open letters, yay.

*I think Kramnik would need a theoretical novelty to sue Topa here....
  

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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #142 - 10/13/06 at 23:51:44
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Will Kramnik drop it now or will he still sue?
  

There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #141 - 10/12/06 at 03:35:22
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OstapBender wrote on 10/11/06 at 12:40:43:
cherry wrote on 10/11/06 at 10:07:18:

oh and hello everyone, nice forum, i have been reading it the last week or so, good job.

Welcome to the ChessPub cherry!  Smiley


ChessPub, hehe  Grin
thanks, cheers, i live in australia, and well you know, aussies do love their beer, probably a bit too much for many  Wink
  
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OstapBender
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #140 - 10/11/06 at 13:45:13
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from http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3418 Quote:
Hands off from the World Champion!
One of our readers sent us a link to a letter that was published in the Bulgarian News Agency BNA. Below is a translation to the best of our ability. The article states that "the sport desk of the Bulgarian News Agency has received an open letter signed by famous Bulgarian Grandmasters entitled 'Hands off from the World Champion!' 

But there do not appear to be any signatures by specific grandmasters. The article is also to be found on the Sport-ni web site.

Open letter
We are deeply indignant at the unprecedented massive campaign against the World Champion Veselin Topalov...

and so on.

Roll Eyes
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #139 - 10/11/06 at 12:40:43
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cherry wrote on 10/11/06 at 10:07:18:

oh and hello everyone, nice forum, i have been reading it the last week or so, good job.

Welcome to the ChessPub cherry!  Smiley
  

"If God had wanted us to vote, he would have given us candidates."  -Jay Leno
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #138 - 10/11/06 at 10:07:18
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didn't he also have something to do with Miles wife or gf, was that before or after Miles passed away .. 
(i know my first 2 posts could be seen as ... trying to flame someone or cause trouble, but this is just the way it happened, easily could of been different)
oh and hello everyone, nice forum, i have been reading it the last week or so, good job.
  
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #137 - 10/11/06 at 09:25:29
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And then there were his annotations in New in Chess, when referring to Timman, he wrote : "[...] ageing, embittered, alcohol-sodden co-editor-in chief".
Doesn't come across as a very pleasant fellow... 
But of course, Kamsky senior is a notoriously insufferable thug, along the same lines as the Williams sisters' father.
  
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #136 - 10/11/06 at 08:53:25
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Nigel Short is famous for his bad actions. Remember the moment GM Tony Miles died. Mr.Short was speaking bad about a dead man. Nigel Short has a bad charakter it seems to me.
  

I recognize terror as the finest emotion in a chessgame and so I will try to terrorize my opponent. But if I find that I cannot terrify, I will try to horrify, and if I find that I cannot horrify ...
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Re: Tales from the Toilet...
Reply #135 - 10/11/06 at 07:25:53
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well what can you expect from short, he is a idiot, and a ugly one to boot ..
  
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