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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch (Read 7527 times)
MNb
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #18 - 10/19/06 at 01:36:45
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By the way. We're all invited by Kadaffi to play in Libya for the World Title.
Fide and Lybia host:


THE AMATEUR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS


Well now, it could have been worse. It might have been Iran, Palestine or North-Korea. Huh


If Khadaffi pays my expenses, especially the journey Suriname-Libya vv and my lost income, I will accept.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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J-dog
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #17 - 10/18/06 at 22:42:17
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but they spell it nuke-ya-ler.
  
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OstapBender
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #16 - 10/18/06 at 18:04:20
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[quote author=Uberdeker link=1161006534/15#15 date=1161194359]Or even the biggest [color=#cc0000][b]nuclear[/b][/color] menace of all : the United States of America! [/quote]

Really?  :o

BTW, the current administration in the White house prefers the term [color=#cc0000][b]nucular[/b][/color] menace.  ;D
  

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Uberdecker
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #15 - 10/18/06 at 17:59:19
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Or even the biggest nuclear menace of all : the United States of America...
But they already have the World Open.
  
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micawber
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #14 - 10/18/06 at 17:53:13
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By the way. We're all invited by Kadaffi to play in Libya for the World Title.
Fide and Lybia host:


THE AMATEUR WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS


Well now, it could have been worse. It might have been Iran, Palestine or North-Korea. Huh
  
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J-dog
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #13 - 10/18/06 at 17:34:14
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I'm wondering what the deal is with the location of a possible rematch.  Obviously Topalov/Danailov want their rematch on home turf, but it's not like Kalmykia was really Kramnik's home turf, even though the Topalov team might spin it like that.  If this recent match was held in St.Petersburg or Moscow, then okay, I can see the point.  I feel a neutral site like London or Paris would be a more suitable venue for the rematch.

The way the rematch formula is set up (2700+, money) it seems like several strong Grandmasters could challenge Kramnik in rapid succession in order to weaken him, wear him down physically, and steal his title.  What if Radjabov challenged him immediately after Topalov, say the Fall of 2007, then someone challenged him for Spring of 2008.  He would be playing either 1 or 2 matches a year!  He would either forfeit at some point and have his title stripped (as the Topalov team secretly hopes), or he would eventually be exhausted and give out in a match.  He has other events/tournaments on his schedule, not to mention his health problems.  It's just too much I think.

Can anyone clarify what the rules are on the timing/spacing/frequency of the possible matches and on how they decide on the venue?
  
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micawber
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #12 - 10/18/06 at 17:31:50
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Perhaps I didn't understand the point of the recent match.
But I think it was to be a reunification to bring the World Championship under Fide-rule.
If that is the case, I think present Fide rules apply to Kramnik until the next cycle.

But given Fide's track record I will not be surprised if the rules will be changed again
during the current cycle

As for Kramnik and his "supporters" this is only self interest.
The current rules make it much harder to hold on to his title:
a) Under current Fide rule he has the obligation to face any challenger putting up the price money.
b) The title will be determined in the Mexico Tournament anyway.
Kramnik must have been well aware of these arrangements. To try and change them now
just shows his "high moral standards".

The candidates have allready been hurt by the Fide-decision. 
As far as I understand it the original system was as follows:
a) 5 GM's were placed directly on the result of the previous WC-tournament.
b) 16 GM's have emerged from the initial candidate tournament.
they would play matches for 8 places in Mexico.
c) The current WC is placed.

Well stage [b] is out of the window (or down the Toilet). Instead there will be a tournament in Elista
to the determine the 8 GM's going to Mexico.
In Kramnik's proposal these 16 GM's have an even much more difficult path to get a shot at the title.
(I wonder if any of these supported the "Kramnik petition"  Huh ; at least I dont think Kamsky signed).







  
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #11 - 10/18/06 at 11:16:18
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John

You are right - it's the match contract that I think needs to be made available. 

Let's see what happens- possible that Radjabov may have already beaten Topalov to a challenge although it was envisaging that he played Top rather than Kram.

Best wishes

Andrew
  
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castlerock
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #10 - 10/18/06 at 11:16:12
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The problem is that this kind of formula is ridiculous- as others have stated use Mexico as the qualifier to play Kramnik and allow Topalov to participate.


Well, I agree, that would have been ideal if it was announced earlier. That was my view earlier. Something that happened in my work (totally unrelated to chess) made me change my view. Doing that may be consistent for FIDE. But, it is not the right thing to do.

What about principle of promissory estopple? How can you downgrade Mexico city, now? It would be absolute injustice done to the 19 GMs in the fray who hope to become a WC after Mexico City. Unilateral shift at this point without the consensus of GMs involved would be absolutely unjust. 

Look at it this way. 2 rounds of Candidate matches and Grand Finale in Mexico City is what the GMs were working on. (Read Gelfand’s open letter?) Now, the fans want FIDE to say, “No, no, it’s a semi final candidates round robin followed by a CatXX tournament to find a challenger for Kramnik. And Topalov will play instead of Kramnik who was to play instead of Topalov”.  Grin

I’ll be happy if it can happen that way after a dialogue with the affected GM’s. If they do not agree, then Candidate matches and Mexico round robin is the way forward. Kramnik puts in his title there and Topalov sits out. That’s what they and FIDE agreed upon. We can hope for a saner cycle for post Mexico scenario. Any unilateral change at this point would be as bad as Danailov.

  

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IMJohnCox
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #9 - 10/18/06 at 10:45:41
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Andrew - the match regulations are a public document, they are on the event website. It is the match contract which is not. I have the impression Topalov's challenge would be under FIDE's general regulations as you mention (ie 2700+ rating plus money) rather than anything contractual entitling him personally to a rematch.
  
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #8 - 10/18/06 at 10:35:21
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I thought this story showed that Topalov was a sore loser but it is true that Fide Statutes allow for any 2700 player to challenge if they have sufficient funds.

The problem is that this kind of formula is ridiculous- as others have stated use Mexico as the qualifier to play Kramnik and allow Topalov to participate.

Of more concern to me is the reference to the Match Regulations having a provision that allows a rematch. I thought we got rid of that with Karpov.

In any event, the Match Regulations need to be a public document so that we know everything in case of disputes, rematches etc.

Andrew
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #7 - 10/18/06 at 08:02:27
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Well it is certainly critical times for chess, lets hope we dont get into another big mess. Here is an interesting snippet from Kramniks press conference which seems to indicate the direction he is going to push for:

Vladimir Kramnik: The manager of Topalov, Silvio Danailov, certainly did not show his best side at the WCC 2006, but Topalov as a chess player undoubtedly deserves admittance at the tournament. I consider the old formula with some corrections was most successful in comparison with all the others. They will answer: the match of the Karpov, Spassky, Fischer… and so on… I will defend my position.

Zhukov: To abandon the idea of a final match is simply criminal. If they create a new champion every year they will not remember who the best one is.

Kramnik: We begin with a fresh page. What we write on it will determine the future of chess. But for now I will not go into detail. I am sure we will find a common language.

  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #6 - 10/17/06 at 20:13:54
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I consider a rematch a completely ridiculous proposal, because the match Kramnik played with Topalov was a "UNIFICATION MATCH" and of course both players know that this is more than a FIDE title. This situation, only demonstrates a week FIDE, and not professional body where players can do and say what they want. 
Of course Kramnik will not play and FIDE needs to arrange rules that are logical. The only way is for Topalov to play in Mexico 2007 and then the winner will play a match with Kramnik, because FIDE must know that a match is a long tradition and if Kramnik not played in San Luis, why on earth he will play in Mexico 2007? Another wrong decision in San Luis was the presence of Peter Leko, because he was eliminated in a match with Kramnik, but FIDE is just like that, totaly without professionalism and logical decisions. I hope Kramnik will teach them the wright way... Wink
  

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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #5 - 10/17/06 at 18:19:56
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"Kramnik will not play Topalov in March":
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=3433
  
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Re: Kramnik-Topalov- the rematch
Reply #4 - 10/17/06 at 18:17:03
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I dont really see the point of this REmatch-"tradition".
There has already been a MATCH - and a winner decided.
I dont understand why the loser should have some second chance....
If he is worthy another match he has to qualify to play for the WC as everybody else.
  
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