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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) World champions play match 1.e4,e5 (Read 7117 times)
glsix
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #13 - 10/20/06 at 12:31:32
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Andersson won his first tournament indeed and quickly become one of the top CC player in the world, probably because he took it seriously and played like a correspondence player should.
On the opposite, Peter Leko played a few games with bad results for someone of his caliber (losses against 2500 players) because he played those games like he would play an OTB game.

Regarding Nigel Short's comment about 8.Qf3 and the 2 knights defence, let's not forget that he is the king of the overstatement (when you play in a band called "pelvic thrust", can you be trusted ?).

For those who wants to give a real chances to CC games, instead of saying that they don't see the point, I could never say enough how good are the books "World Champion at the third Attempt" from G. Sanakoev and Tim Harding's "64 great chess games" and "50 golden chess games".
  
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #12 - 10/20/06 at 09:21:32
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alumbrado wrote on 10/20/06 at 06:08:09:
Maybe that is why MNb plays so much CC  Grin

Grin Grin
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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alumbrado
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #11 - 10/20/06 at 06:08:09
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TalJechin wrote on 10/19/06 at 19:29:48:
Anyway, I haven't anything against corr games per se, but it really is quite another discipline - rewarding hard work, studies and stubborness instead of quick thinking, fighting spirit and practicality.


Maybe that is why MNb plays so much CC  Grin
  
If sometimes we fly too close to the sun, at least this shows we are spreading our wings.
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #10 - 10/19/06 at 19:29:48
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Quote:
Several OTB-GM's have taken part in correspondence high class events, but none of them have won them.


Didn't Ulf Andersson win his first corr tournaments when he first took it up, about 10 years ago? I have a faint memory that he'd've gone straight in at the top of the ratinglist but iccf changed the minimum number of games so it took him a little more time...

Anyway, I haven't anything against corr games per se, but it really is quite another discipline - rewarding hard work, studies and stubborness instead of quick thinking, fighting spirit and practicality.
  
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #9 - 10/19/06 at 15:38:38
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Several OTB-GM's have taken part in correspondence high class events, but none of them have won them.
As for impressive many innovations in the 1.e4,e5 openings have been discovered by correspondence players. The piece-sac in the Fritz-variation was worked out by Hans Berliner, who surprised Estrin (both correspondence chess WC and OTB-GM). Estrin participated in several following championships but never regained his title. 
Kasparov's win against Anand in the 1995 match with a spectacular TN, wasnt a TN in correspondence chess. 

Quite often corespondence play is very sharp and interesting. Look up Timmerman's really spectacular winn as black in the Vienna/Dracula variation.  Also, if you want to see well played and beautiful endgames high class correspondence games, now that games are no longer adjourned.
  
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #8 - 10/19/06 at 12:30:38
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Some of the comments here have been a bit dismissive of Umansky and Timmerman.  I suggest that it should be kept in mind that both players have OVER THE BOARD ratings that are probably higher than well over 90% of the contributers to this forum.
M Umansky 2445
G Timmermann 2303

Also this is a friendly challenge match with the openings fixed in advance. See

http://www.chessevents.nl/cemf_gambitmatch.shtml
  
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #7 - 10/19/06 at 10:29:50
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It is strange, and I know people will run to condemn me when I say this - but the correspondence games have never left a great impression on me - I dont know why because you would think with so much extra time the quality should be superior, but usually I find the opposite and GM over-the-board games have more rhythm and coherence.
  
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #6 - 10/19/06 at 09:18:56
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Are they infected with the f-pawn disease? Game 1 looks like a race to get rid of it asap Grin
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #5 - 10/19/06 at 08:40:19
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Quote:
Well, the interesting thing is that:
(1) Timmerman allowed the Qf3-variation
(2) Umansky avoided the Qf3-variation.
Both GM's are e4-e5 experts. 
So perhaps they still have some opening-secrets they havent
uncorked yet. Wink


Well, Umansky avoided Qf3! against the Adelaide too, and that Qe2 ending he chose doesn't look like an 'expert's choice' to me...  Roll Eyes

Timmerman's Bxc6? in the other doesn't impress, and I wonder why he chose 6.Nd5 instead of 6.0-0 Anyway, even in corr I really doubt that Short would lose to either of these guys...
  
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #4 - 10/19/06 at 07:06:25
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its been a long time since i played the 2 knights, and i'm by no means an expert, so maybe someone can correct me, but i do not think that 8.Qf3 is short's or new. its an obvious enough threat, and i'm pretty sure that its been rolled out on occasion for decades.
  
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #3 - 10/18/06 at 23:34:24
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cheers for those Smiley
  
blog inspired by Bronstein's book, but using my own games: http://200opengames.blogspot.co.uk/
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #2 - 10/18/06 at 22:02:45
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Well, the interesting thing is that:
(1) Timmerman allowed the Qf3-variation
(2) Umansky avoided the Qf3-variation.
Both GM's are e4-e5 experts. 
So perhaps they still have some opening-secrets they havent
uncorked yet. Wink
  
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Re: World champions play match 1.e4,e5
Reply #1 - 10/18/06 at 21:02:48
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He should be noted that Umansky have played 8.Be2 instead of Short's 8.Qf3
  
Eternity it's very long especially towards the end!
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World champions play match 1.e4,e5
10/18/06 at 20:44:19
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Two (former) Correspondence World Champions are playing an iccf-webserver match:
GM M.Umansky and GM G.Timmerman. Al 6 games have started 1.e4,e5 (no spanish games)
Not all games have finished. One observation though. The two knight's defense isnt dead yet,
despite Nigel Short's comments. One of the games featured this opening and ended in a draw,
black's initiative compensating the missing pawn. 
I wonder, if Nigel would survive a correspondence match against either of these GM's.


M.Umansky - G.Timmerman [1]

1.e4 e5 2.f4 Nc6 3.Nf3 f5 4.exf5 e4 5.Ne5 Nxe5
6.fxe5 Qe7 7.Qh5+ Kd8 8.d4 exd3 9.Bxd3 Qxe5+ 10.Qe2 Qxe2+
11.Bxe2 d5 12.c4 Nf6 13.g4 h5 14.g5 Ne4 15.Rf1 Bd6
16.Nc3 Rf8 17.Bf4 Nxc3 18.Bxd6 cxd6 19.bxc3 Bxf5 20.cxd5 Kc7
21.O-O-O Bh3 22.Rxf8 Rxf8 23.Bxh5 Rf5 24.Rd3 Bg2 25.h4 Bxd5
26.a3 Be4 27.Rg3 Rf2 28.Bd1 b5 29.h5 Rh2 30.Rg4 Bd5
31.Rf4 a5 32.Rf8 Kb6 33.Rb8+ Kc5 34.Rc8+ Kb6 35.Rb8+ Kc5
36.Rc8+ Kb6 37.Rb8+ Kc5 1/2-1/2


G.Timmerman-M.Umansky [2]
1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Nc3 Bb4 5.Nf3 O-O
6.Nd5 Nxd5 7.exd5 Re8+ 8.Kf2 b5 9.Bxb5 c6 10.Bc4 cxd5
11.Bxd5 Nc6 12.d4 Ba6 13.c4 Rc8 14.a3 Bd6 15.b3 Bb8
16.Bxc6 Rxc6 17.d5 Qb6+ 18.Qd4 Rg6 19.Bd2 Rxg2+ 20.Kxg2 Re2+
21.Kf1 Qxd4 22.Nxd4 Rxd2 23.Nf3 Rb2 24.Re1 Kf8 25.Nd4 Rd2
26.Nb5 Bxb5 27.cxb5 g5 28.Rg1 f6 29.Rg2 Rxd5 30.a4 f3
31.Rc2 Kf7 32.h3 h5 33.Rc4 f5 34.Rcc1 Rd2 35.Rcd1 Rh2
36.Rxd7+ Kf6 37.Ree7 g4 38.Rf7+ Ke5 39.hxg4 hxg4 40.Rh7 Rb2
41.Rhe7+ Kf4 42.Rd4+ Kg3 0-1

M.Umansky-G.Timmermna[3]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 Na5
6.Bb5+ c6 7.dxc6 bxc6 8.Be2 h6 9.Nf3 e4 10.Ne5 Bc5
11.c3 Qc7 12.d4 exd3 13.Nxd3 Bd6 14.Nd2 Bf5 15.b4 Nb7
16.Nc4 Rd8 17.Be3 O-O 18.Bxa7 Nd5 19.Bd4 Rfe8 20.Nxd6 Rxd6
21.O-O c5 22.bxc5 Nxc5 23.c4 Bxd3 24.Bxc5 Qxc5 25.Bxd3 Nf4
26.Qa4 Red8 27.Bc2 Qc8 28.Be4 Ne2+ 29.Kh1 Nc3 30.Qc2 Qxc4
31.Rac1 Qxe4 32.Qxc3 Rd2 33.a3 Qa8 34.Rce1 R8d3 35.Qb4
1/2-1/2

G.Timmerman-M.Umansky [4]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.d4 exd4 5.e5 d5
6.Bb5 Ne4 7.Nxd4 Bc5 8.Be3 Bxd4 9.Qxd4 O-O 10.Bxc6 bxc6
11.Nc3 Ng5 12.Bxg5 Qxg5 13.h4 Qh5 14.O-O Qg6 15.Ne2 f6
16.exf6 Rxf6 17.Rfe1 Bd7 18.Ng3 Raf8 19.h5 Qg5 20.Re5 Rf4
21.Qe3 Qf6 22.Rf1 Qd6 23.f3 c5 24.Re1 h6 25.b3 c6
26.Qc3 c4 27.b4 a5 28.bxa5 Ra8 29.Re7 Rf7 30.Rxf7 Kxf7
31.Kf2 Qc5+ 32.Kf1 Kg8 *NOT FINISHED*

G.Timmerman-M.Umansky [5]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Bc5 5.Nxc6 Qf6
6.Qd2 dxc6 7.Nc3 Ne7 8.Na4 Bd6 9.f4 O-O 10.Qf2 Nd5
11.exd5 Re8+ 12.Be2 Bg4 13.Nc3 Bb4 14.Bd2 Bxe2 15.Nxe2 Qxb2
16.Rd1 Bxd2+ 17.Kxd2 Rad8 18.Nc3 Qb4 19.Qf3 cxd5 20.Kc1 Qa3+
21.Kb1 d4 22.Nb5 Qa5 23.Na3 b5 24.Rd3 c5 25.Qh5 Re1+
26.Rxe1 Qxe1+ 27.Qd1 Qb4+ 28.Rb3 Qa5 29.Qf3 a6 30.Qc6 c4
31.Nxc4 bxc4 32.Qxc4 g6 33.g3 Kg7 34.Kb2 Rd6 35.a3 Qf5
36.Qe2 h5 37.h4 Re6 38.Qc4 Qe4 39.Rb4 Rd6 40.a4 Qe7
*NOT FINISHED*

M.Umansky-G.Timmerman [6]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Bc5 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5
6.d4 exd4 7.O-O Nf6 8.e5 d5 9.exf6 dxc4 10.fxg7 Rg8
11.Re1+ Be6 12.Bg5 Qd5 13.Nbd2 Rxg7 14.Ne4 Kf8 15.Bh6 dxc3
16.Qc1 Rd8 17.Nfg5 Qf5 18.Re3 Kg8 19.Bxg7 Kxg7 20.Nxe6+ fxe6
21.Rg3+ Kh8 22.Qh6 Qf7 23.Ng5 Qg6 24.Qxg6 hxg6 25.Nf7+ Kg7
26.Nxd8 Nxd8 27.a4 Nf7 28.Kf1 a6 29.Ke2 c2 30.Rc1 b5
31.Rxc2 Nd6 32.h4 Kf6 33.axb5 axb5 34.Ra2 Bb6 35.Ra8 b4
36.Rg8 Kf7 37.R8xg6 Bd4 38.Rg8 b3 39.Rb8 Ba7 40.Rb4 Bc5
41.Rb8 *
*NOT FINISHED*

  
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