ChessPub Forum - Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake

(UTC)

ChessPub Forum › General › General Chess › Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake

(Moderators: trw, RoleyPoley, proustiskeen)

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Pages: 1 2 [3]

Topic Tools

Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake (Read 19433 times)

IMJohnCox God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1551 Location: London Joined: 01/28/06 Gender:	Re: Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake Reply #8 - 11/08/06 at 13:33:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	Egad - Carlsen sacrifices a piece against Shaka for not much visible to this naked eye. Wonder what's going on there. Obviously Gijssen didn't shine here, but Moro's behaviour was a bit strange. Of cours enothing obliges him to watch while the claim's investigated. I remember Mark Hebden doing very much the same once with a 50-move claim.


	IP Logged

IMJohnCox God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1551 Location: London Joined: 01/28/06 Gender:	Re: Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake Reply #7 - 11/08/06 at 13:12:20	Post Tools	Print Post
	Meanwhile, five very interesting games brewing. Aronian takes Svidler on yet again in this fashionable Bg5 dxc4 Grunfeld. Carlsen has chosen a very principled line trapping Mamedyarov’s king in the centre at some cost to his own coordination. Grischuk has offered a new pawn sacrifice (as far as I know) in a very heavy Petroff position (Leko-Anand from San Luis) which Gelfand has just accepted after forty minutes’ thought, Shirov is trying to uphold Renet’s analysis in the Marshall like from Kramnik-Leko, and Moro has played a totally discredited reply to the Perenyi Attack and looks in terrible trouble to my inexpert eye, not that I’d like to be White either. Games here: http://www.russiachess.org/online/index.htm My predictions: Pono wins, Shirov-Leko draw, Black makes at least 2/3 in the other games. chk - yes, 46...Qc7 was the move Carlsen declared he was going to play and it was after that the claim was made.


	IP Logged

chk God Member Offline a pawn is a pawn Posts: 1063 Location: Athens Joined: 10/26/06 Gender:	Re: Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake Reply #6 - 11/08/06 at 12:39:11	Post Tools	Print Post
	From what I understant from the arbiter's comment: Quote: Mr. Carlsen approached Mr. Dubov to say that he intended to play 46... Qc7 whereupon the same position will arise for the third time. 46. Be3 Qc7 could have been the concluding moves of the game, making it 3 times that the same position arises (disregarding who has the right to move); i.e. after White's 39th and Black's 44th & 46th moves..

	"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
	IP Logged

Klick God Member Offline Posts: 528 Joined: 01/31/03	Re: Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake Reply #5 - 11/08/06 at 12:29:18	Post Tools	Print Post
	Here is the game: Code [Event "Tal Memorial"] [Site "Moscow, Russia"] [Date "2006.11.07"] [Round "?"] [White "Morozevich, Alexander"] [Black "Carlsen, Magnus"] [Result "1/2-1/2"] [ECO "B33"] [WhiteElo "2747"] [BlackElo "2698"] [PlyCount "90"] [EventDate "2006.??.??"] 1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 e5 6. Ndb5 d6 7. Bg5 a6 8. Na3 b5 9. Nd5 Be7 10. Nxe7 Nxe7 11. Bd3 Nd7 12. c4 b4 13. Nc2 a5 14. Ne3 f6 15. Bh4 O-O 16. O-O Nc5 17. f3 Be6 18. Re1 Qb8 19. Bf1 Kh8 20. Re2 Rc8 21. Rd2 Ra6 22. Rc1 Rac6 23. Bf2 Bf7 24. Nd5 Nxd5 25. cxd5 R6c7 26. Rdc2 Be8 27. b3 Bd7 28. g4 Kg8 29. Qe2 Nb7 30. Rxc7 Rxc7 31. Rxc7 Qxc7 32. Qa6 Nc5 33. Qa8+ Kf7 34. h4 h6 35. Bc4 Be8 36. Be3 Ke7 37. g5 hxg5 38. hxg5 Kf7 39. Kg2 Ke7 40. Kg3 Kf7 41. Kg4 Ke7 42. Kh4 Kf7 43. Kh3 Ke7 44. Kg2 Kf7 45. Bd2 Qb6 1/2-1/2

	game.pgn ( 0 KB \| Downloads ) There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
	IP Logged

Klick God Member Offline Posts: 528 Joined: 01/31/03	Re: Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake Reply #4 - 11/08/06 at 12:24:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	Hmm, difficult to call that one, but I guess a signed scoresheet is quite convincing. Having looked through the game though I don't understand it. To my eyes it does not even look like the same position three times. Strange.

	There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
	IP Logged

Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake Reply #3 - 11/08/06 at 12:23:46	Post Tools	Print Post
	What is amazing is the impression that they just checked for repetition of the position but with no regard for the player with the move - it is only later Gijssen may have realised - oh my God, what have I just done I can well understand this mistake happening in a weekend congress, but for an extremely experienced arbiter like Gijssen it just amazes me.


	IP Logged

TalJechin God Member Offline There is no secret ingredient. Posts: 2892 Location: Malmö Joined: 08/12/04 Gender:	Re: Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake Reply #2 - 11/08/06 at 12:09:27	Post Tools	Print Post
	Considering that 'The players signed the scoresheets.' Moro must've stayed that long. Still, can you really continue a game when both have signed and thereby acknowledged the draw? - This could turn into a looong thread!


	IP Logged

Klick God Member Offline Posts: 528 Joined: 01/31/03	Re: Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake Reply #1 - 11/08/06 at 11:47:29	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Then I found Mr. Morozevich and informed him about Mr. Carlsen's cliam, inviting him to check the scoresheets. Mr. Morozevich informed me that he did not want to attend the checking and left it to me. Obviously this is a serious mistake by Gijssen, but I can't help to initally feel (based on what you wrote) that as Morozevich didn't object to a three-fold repetition and didn't even want to check it he cannot complain too much. One gets the impression from your text that Moro didn't even stay around to receive the result. (although I guess the full story remains to be told) Maybe the game should be continued from the final position though, claiming draw was obviously a false 'move'. On the other hand, it is a long time since we last saw adjournments in OTB chess.

	There just isn't enough televised chess - DAVID LETTERMAN
	IP Logged

Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Geurt Gijssen astounding mistake 11/08/06 at 10:54:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, for this to happen at a high level astounds me, it is well known a lot of players mistakenly try to claim 3-fold repetition without realising it must be the same position but also with the same player to move.... Incidentally this happened yesterday in the Tal memorial, which looks like a great tournament. I havent looked at the final position yet but apparently Morozevich had good winning chances and was not too happy with the draw, he was quoted afterwards as saying something like "I cannot count to 3". Wonder how he feels now A Statement by the Arbiter Geurt Gijssen of November 7 Quote: Tonight during the game Morozevich-Carlsen, Mr. Carlsen approached Mr. Dubov to say that he intended to play 46... Qc7 whereupon the same position will arise for the third time. Mr. Dubov called me and Mr. Carlsen and I went to the analyzing room. Then I found Mr. Morozevich and informed him about Mr. Carlsen's cliam, inviting him to check the scoresheets. Mr. Morozevich informed me that he did not want to attend the checking and left it to me. Mr. Carlsen and I replayed the game, coming to the conclusion that the same position indeed repeated three times on the board. The players signed the scoresheets. Afterwards I had my doubts and on my own initiative again investigated the game. My conclusion was that the same position appeared three times on the board, but not with the same player having the move. It means that the claim was wrong and my decision was wrong as well. I informed Mr. Carlsen about it and he was immediately ready to continue the game. The organizers tried to reach Mr. Morozevich, but he was nowhere to be found. Mr. Kuzmin, his coach, informed the organizers that, in his opinion, the draw should stand. All this time Mr. Carlsen was waiting for the game to continue and did not analyze the resulting position. http://www.russiachess.org/eng/content/view/17/71/


	IP Logged

Pages: 1 2 [3]

Topic Tools

‹ Previous Topic | Next Topic ›

Bookmarks:

« Board Index ‹ Board Top