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Normal Topic C00: critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit (Read 15114 times)
knightmare
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Re: Critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
Reply #8 - 01/26/07 at 09:00:34
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I played some correspondence games vs Jyrkki Heikkinen some years ago (Heikkinen runs the finnish site that James_Ells posted above, and seems to a an expert of this line). 

Though there games were played 10 years ago (seems as if I'm getting old ...) I still think that after
1. e4 e6 2. d4 d5 3. c4 dxe4 4. Nc3 Nf6 5. f3 ... 
5...Bb4 is the most logical move. 
All the lines starting from that position seem to be not very convincing for white IMHO
  
ELO 2060. Corr.: 2190. Which casts doubts if I ever knew what I was doing. At least on the Board.
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Gambit
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Re: Critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
Reply #7 - 01/26/07 at 06:26:56
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I can tell you that Ganzo appears to be a Spanish or Portuguese master of some strength. His first initial is J., which might mean "Juan" or "Joao" , a popular Spanish/Portuguese name. If memory serves, Ganzo was one of Alekhine's chess partners during his exile in Portugal. The chesslive.de database lists some games by Ganzo, with fine attacking style. 

Ganzo played against Alekhine twice, in 1944, winning once and losing once. There is also a correspondence game by Ganzo from 1958, an Elephant Gambit.

The balance seems to be that Ganzo might have analysed some lines of the Diemer-Duhm Gambit in the early-to-mid 1940s. Diemer then could have either seen Ganzo's analyses published, or done independent analyses of his own.  It is like the Italians calling 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 f5 the Greco Counter-Gambit, and the Russians, the Latvian Gambit.

Also, I seem to recall reading about a Master Ganzo in connection with Alexander Alekhine's last years in Portugal. It was said that Alekhine lost to Ganzo, who, according to the book, was a third-rate master.
This was right before the Botvinnik-Alekhine match that never took place due to Alekhine's death.

Any comments?
  
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dom
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Re: Critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
Reply #6 - 01/03/07 at 21:27:37
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After reading france-echecs.com debate I realize that Hubsch debate is out of place in French forum and a thread is already opened in d-pawn specials forum....

...but after reading Prie comment on france-echecs i have just looked at Prie update and noticed Veresov is interesting for the French player (and maybe some interesting transpositions to be found, for example: 1.d4 e6 2.Nc3 d5 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Nbd7 5.e4 ) ... and it may be an answer to "what move French players play vs 1.d4 ?"
  
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dom
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Re: Critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
Reply #5 - 01/03/07 at 20:05:42
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Just for information....

About the Huebsch (another gambit variation 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.e4 Nxe4 4.Nxe4 dxe4 ... is'it a French or not, that is a question ... but variation common for BDG-DDG players ), if you read french language, you have following text/analysis/comments at URL http://www.france-echecs.com/index.php?mode=showComment&art=20061008123033382

And don't ask for a translation of some GM's E.Prie words (some IM will not appreciate) ...  Cheesy
  
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Re: Critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
Reply #4 - 01/03/07 at 18:44:24
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dom wrote on 01/02/07 at 18:59:20:
I own Play the French #2 and #3..and not #1, but the line is given in Minev's book "New and Forgotten ideas about the French" ( i read it many years ago ... it's an interesting book for creative play, but with no in-depth analysis).

In #2, Watson recommend 4...f5!? 5.f3 Nf6 6.fxe4 fxe4 7.Bg5 Be7 =+ (side line) and 4.Nf6 + c5 at some stage (Keres line) or the line you gave with 6.f3 Nc6!

In #3, the gambit is not included (maybe I have not read the book in depth). In Pedersen's book "French:Advance and Other lines", the gambit is missing in Chapter 9 (rare lines). In Psakhis's book "Advance and other anti-french variations" gambit missing too....thus my comment: as White GM will not try the gambit  Cool

Yes: 6...Nc6! and Black are better. If White wants to make a trap: 5.Nge2 Bb4 6.Bh6 h6 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 8.Qa4+ Nc6 9.d5 exd5 10.cxd5 e3 11.ooo Bxc3 12.Nxc3 and great advantage for White. Angus-Purdy,corr 1996 (but it's not a gambit). Playing c6 is a safer way for Black 




Thanks again dom! You gave me very good news! So Watson changed his mind in the second edition, and in the third he forgot (maybe) the DDG! And both Pedersen and Psakhis don't care to spare with it...So White GM will not try the gambit, but neither the 99% of Black players are prepared to meet it!!!!!! Especially if they own that books!!!!
My level is about 2000...so maybe I will quit the DDG when I'll reach 2600 - 2800!  Grin Grin Cool (or before....if I will crushed by an unrated player!).
Thanks also for the very interesting game: food for thoughts. Afterall I will start to studying the DDG deeply. And I will take the lines with Nc6 first.
Best regards and...Good Chess
J.E.
  
Stat rosa pristine nomine, nomina nuda tenemus.
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dom
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Re: Critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
Reply #3 - 01/02/07 at 18:59:20
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I own Play the French #2 and #3..and not #1, but the line is given in Minev's book "New and Forgotten ideas about the French" ( i read it many years ago ... it's an interesting book for creative play, but with no in-depth analysis).

In #2, Watson recommend 4...f5!? 5.f3 Nf6 6.fxe4 fxe4 7.Bg5 Be7 =+ (side line) and 4.Nf6 + c5 at some stage (Keres line) or the line you gave with 6.f3 Nc6!

In #3, the gambit is not included (maybe I have not read the book in depth). In Pedersen's book "French:Advance and Other lines", the gambit is missing in Chapter 9 (rare lines). In Psakhis's book "Advance and other anti-french variations" gambit missing too....thus my comment: as White GM will not try the gambit  Cool

Yes: 6...Nc6! and Black are better. If White wants to make a trap: 5.Nge2 Bb4 6.Bh6 h6 7.Bxf6 Qxf6 8.Qa4+ Nc6 9.d5 exd5 10.cxd5 e3 11.ooo Bxc3 12.Nxc3 and great advantage for White. Angus-Purdy,corr 1996 (but it's not a gambit). Playing c6 is a safer way for Black 
  
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Re: Critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
Reply #2 - 01/02/07 at 17:50:38
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[quote author=dom link=1167514802/0#1 date=1167577433]Great links ....  Smiley
Many books give the Keres Line: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.c4 dxe4 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.f3 c5 and stop after 6.d5 exd5 7.cxd5 exf3 8.Nxf3 Bd6 (ECO,Zlotnik,Watson,Keres,Harding and Jovicic) and the line is recommended by Watson and Schiller 

Without any strong preparation, maybe declining the gambit is a good idea: 3...Nc6!? with following lines:
A) 4.exd5 (transposing to the Exchange variation 3.exd5 exd5 4.c4 Nc6!?) 
B) 4.cxd5 exd5 5.exd5 Qxd5 
C) 4.Be3 (now White has done the Alapin's move) dxe4 5.Nc3 Nf6 reaching one of positions analyzed by Heikkinen (see links ) but White has no more the oppotunity to play the more active Bg5

Dany Senechaud's book about Diemer (in French language): http://www.mjae.com/diemer1.html[/quote

Hello dom,
many thanks for the kind reply and for the very useful tips. If this is the 'refutation'...I think I will give the DDG more than a try Wink
Yesterday in a bookstore I found a old copy of Watson "Play the French" 1st ed. and he gave also 5.Bg5 Be7 6.f3 (6.Nge2 c5 with a slight advantage for Black, but I'm not quite sure that it is so) Nc6! with a clear advantage for Black. For now I think it's too much easy and  beauty for being true! I like the idea of Black players forsaken in unknown territory on move seven!
The last edition of Watson's book has added or changed something in that line? 
I'd like to know the reccomandation of Psakhis and Pedersen (someone can help me please?), also....but I'm starting to be very optimistic  Cool
And, as far as I know, playing Nc6 vs the Exchange is not the mandatory reply: surely 4..Nf6 or 4..Bb4! are better.
Best regards and Good Chess
J.E.
  
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dom
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Re: Critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
Reply #1 - 12/31/06 at 15:03:53
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Great links ....  Smiley
Many books give the Keres Line: 1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.c4 dxe4 4.Nc3 Nf6 5.f3 c5 and stop after 6.d5 exd5 7.cxd5 exf3 8.Nxf3 Bd6 (ECO,Zlotnik,Watson,Keres,Harding and Jovicic) and the line is recommended by Watson and Schiller 

Without any strong preparation, maybe declining the gambit is a good idea: 3...Nc6!? with following lines:
A) 4.exd5 (transposing to the Exchange variation 3.exd5 exd5 4.c4 Nc6!?) 
B) 4.cxd5 exd5 5.exd5 Qxd5 
C) 4.Be3 (now White has done the Alapin's move) dxe4 5.Nc3 Nf6 reaching one of positions analyzed by Heikkinen (see links ) but White has no more the oppotunity to play the more active Bg5

Dany Senechaud's book about Diemer (in French language): http://www.mjae.com/diemer1.html
  
“Learn from the mistakes of others. You can never live long enough to make them all yourself.”  - Groucho Marx
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C00: critical lines in the Diemer Duhm Gambit
12/30/06 at 21:40:01
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Hi everybody,
I've decided to sharp my repertoire against the French, and I want to give to the Diemer Duhm Gambit a try...
I found a couple of websites dedicated to it, and I think they are very, very, very good:
http://gambits.blogspot.com/
http://www.funet.fi/pub/doc/games/chess/ddg/
At first sight most of all I like that declining the gambit transpose to the Marshall Gambit of the Slav and accepting it leads to a wild fight.
But before start going deep with the variations, I'd like to know what the French experts (Pshakis, Watson, Pedersen, Ziegler, ecc) reccomend against it. There is a refutation? And the guru of 1...e6 offer the same antidote or they vary?
Any help and info are truly welcome!
Thanks in advance for the kind reply. Good Chess and Happy New Year!
J. E.
« Last Edit: 07/30/11 at 18:37:23 by dom »  
Stat rosa pristine nomine, nomina nuda tenemus.
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