lnn2 wrote on 01/24/07 at 02:04:31:


Ah, I see.  Of course, if you never put your knight on c3, you avoid a great many lines of the Tarrasch.  Do you think this idea of Bosch's is any good?

lnn2 wrote on 01/23/07 at 01:34:59:


You can play 3. Nc3 and still avoid the Hennig-Scharra, if you are willing to play against the Semi-Tarrasch.  Answer 3...c5 with 4. Nf3.  Black can have a Semi-Tarrasch with 4...Nf6; if he intends a proper Tarrasch he has to play 4...Nc6, and you then play 5. cxd5, avoiding the gambit.  As I dimly recall, Schiller has a Tarrasch repertoire book advocating 4. Nf3 cxd4 but I don't think that Black is O.K. there.   

As for the Tarrasch with an early ...c4, are you referring to the Swedish Variation?  But in that, White's knight is already on f3, isn't it?

You're right that if you play 3. Nf3: you allow the Ragozin/Vienna.  There is a pile of theory to learn there.  You also permit the Semi-Tarrasch.  But in none of these cases does White surrender his += birthright.

My answer to the original post is that if you play 3. Nc3, you have to have something prepared against the Triangle.  Either prepare something against the Noteboom, or book up on 4. e4.

One little thing not observed so far is that if 3. Nc3 is your poison against the QGD, you MUST allow the Nimzo, since Black can reach his QGD via 1....Nf6, 2...e6, 3...d5.  On the other hand, if you like 3. Nf3 against the QGD, you MUST NOT allow the Nimzo, since 3. Nc3 versus the Black moves I just gave lands in in the QGD with the "wrong" knight out.

An early Nf3 rules out the exchange perhaps, but there is stil the option of the Bf4 systems if you want to castle Q-side and go after Black.

I'm not wild about 3 Nf3 Nf6 4 Bg5; dxc4 now is a significant problem for a start. But you're right; this is another option.

Alias: conventional wisdom is that you can't get the Exchange variation at all after 3 Nf3 Nf6 4 cxd5 exd5 5 Bg5 c6, since Black's next is ...Bf5 and you can't do anything about it, whereas if you had Nc3 instead of Nf3 then you could play e3 Bf5 7 Qf3 and double the pawns on f6. It's not totally clear, and there was another thread about, but that's the conventional view.

1) Why is the Botvinnik and the anti-Moscow considered more fun or rich than Meran? I never understood that. The Meran is fun and rich in my opinion. [Not really related to this topic since we're not talking e3 vs Bg5.]
2) Which are the really fun lines the Palliser move order rule out? White can still play Nc3 after c6 I guess.

Of course one can play exchange variation of QGD after Nf3. Just not the Nge2 version.

Frankly, I don't understand the dilemma. Are you trying to fit the Cox's scheme vs QGD (Nge2 exchange) with Pallisers' scheme vs slav and semi-slav (Nf3, e3, cxd5 vs slav and Nbd2-lines vs semi-slav) together?

It doesn’t have a simple answer at all, I fear.

So the game starts 1 d4 d5 2 c4 e6.

If you play 3 Nf3 then you cannot play the Exchange QGD (sounds like you don’t anyway) and you have to be ready for the Vienna (3…Nf6 4 Nc3 dxc4) and semi-Tarrasch 3…Nf6 4 Nc3 c5, neither of which Black can get if you go 3 Nc3. On the other hand you can meet 3…e6 with 4 e3/Qc2 or whatever it is you want to play to avoid a Meran.

If you play 3 Nc3 then 3…c6 is a problem since you either have to play 4 Nf3 and allow the Abrahams (aka the Noteboom) with 4…dxc4, or 4 e3 allowing a Meran with Nc3 in, which you don’t want, or 4 e4, which is a pretty decent gambit called the Marshall Gambit.

Your call. 

(As they say, btw ‘It’s all in my book’)