Willempie wrote on 02/01/07 at 13:34:41:


I would much rather be White after 4. e3 Nf6  5. a3 Be7, but I agree that since ...d5 is in, the withdrawal of the bishop is better than the exchange on c3.  I wonder if White can avoid this by playing 4. a3 immediately.

kylemeister wrote on 01/31/07 at 20:47:29:


I'm not sure we're talking about the same thing.  If the exchange on c3 has occurred and White has e3 in, ...d5 is a bad move, more or less.  Black generally has no good option to recapture on d5 with a piece.  For example 1. d4 Nf6  2. c4 e6  3. Nc3 Bb4  4. a3 Bxc3+  5. bxc3 c5  6. e3 d5?!  7. cxd5, or 6...Nc6  7. Bd3 d5?!  8. cxd5 or, as in an ongoing CC game of mine, 6...b6  7. Ne2! Bb7  8. Ng3 0-0  9. Bd3 (I would have welcomed 9...Bxg7) 9...d5?! 10. cxd5.  It continued 10...exd5  11. 0-0 Nc6  12. f3 Re8  13. Ra2 Rc8  14. Re2 g6!?  15. Bb2 and Black simply could not prevent e3-e4.  There are indeed many ways for Black to get ...d5 in against White's early e3, and essentially all of them are bad.  One initially has the impression that Black is doing well with his central pawn, e-file, and better development.  But often in fact, he is being crushed.

Now it is true that if White plays f3 before e3, most notably as in 4. f3 d5  5. a3 Bxc3  6. bxc3 c5, Black can play ...d5 and may (indeed must, if he wants to avoid the pawn-roller variation) recapture on d5 with a piece.  But that is nothing new; it was well known in the 1950s.  f3 is a very time-consuming move, and often after 4. a3 if White plays a careless f3, Black just blockades him to death.

Ptero wrote on 01/31/07 at 18:29:18:

If after 5.a3 Bxc3 6. bxc3 Nc6 7. cxd5 exd5 How does 6.c4 look?

Ptero wrote on 01/31/07 at 18:29:18:

I quite disagree. It is true many blacks mishandle the lines after Bxc3, however I dont see anything positive about white's position after 5..Be7. You play a QGD with the bishop locked in on c1 and the not so useful tempo a3. Here's a recent example, where white gainst nothing from the opening and even loses:
[Event "SWE-ch"]
[Site "Gothenburg"]
[Date "2006.07.01"]
[Round "4"]
[White "Eriksson,Johan"]
[Black "Berg,Emanuel"]
[Result "0-1"]
[Eco "E51"]
1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 4.e3 d5 5.a3 Be7 6.Nf3 0-0 7.Bd3 dxc4 8.Bxc4 c5 
9.0-0 a6 10.dxc5 Qxd1 11.Rxd1 Bxc5 12.b4 Be7 13.e4 b5 14.Bd3 Bb7 15.Bg5 h6 16.Bh4 Nbd7 17.Be2 Rac8 18.Rac1 g5 19.Bg3 Nb6 20.e5 Nfd5 21.Nxd5 Bxd5 22.Nd4 Rfd8 23.Rxc8 Rxc8 24.f4 Rc3 25.f5 Rxa3 26.fxe6 fxe6 27.Bg4 Bxb4 28.Nxe6 Bb3 29.Rd8+ Kf7 30.Nc7 Ra1+ 31.Kf2 Bc5+ 32.Ke2 Bc4+ 33.Kd2 Ra2+ 34.Kc1 Ba3+ 35.Kb1 Rb2+ 36.Ka1 Ra2+ 37.Kb1 Rb2+ 38.Ka1 Kg6 9.Bf3 Ra2+ 40.Kb1 Rb2+ 41.Ka1 Na4 42.Be4+ Kh5 43.Be1 Nc5 44.Bf3+ g4 45.Bd1 Ra2+ 46.Kb1 Rb2+ 47.Ka1 Rxg2 48.h3 Bb2+ 49.Kb1 Bxe5 50.hxg4+ Kg6 51.Bc2+ Kf7 0-1

Quote:


Interesting. Hmm...
Wonder if that means there are no known antidote or that Aagard simply doesnt give it to you...

Mnb,

I think a disadvantage with your suggested move order is that it allows black to avoid the powerful bishop at d3.
Black plays 6..c6 and Bf5 (or first an eventual Ne7 if needed)

I think that that "early ...d5 is bad" view was the consensus a few decades ago but isn't really held to be true any more.  Though it seems that Black is generally advised to recapture on d5 with a piece (in at least some cases with the queen) ...

Kasparov did play the "delayed Saemisch" for a while in the '80s.  Raymond Keene recommended it in a d4 repertoire book back then; someone mentioned here recently that IM Shereshevsky did the same in his "The Soviet Chess Conveyor."