http://www.chesscafe.com/mueller/mueller.htm

Check out the reader correction of Berg-Kallio, apparently there are exceptions to the Vancura draw...

Well, I did manage to win in 36 moves. People actually started a betting pool to see if I could make it.

After the win, I told about it  to  Jonathan Rowson, with whom I was training back than, expecting praise. Instead he told me how he used to train to give mate within 60 seconds.   

Related to the subject about "technical endgames" people are supposed to know but occur rarely OTB. Two years ago, I played a tournament in which I was 0.5 point behind the leader and had to play him in the last round. A victory would have guaranteed me the overall win of the tournament...

... and it all came down to b+n against 3 pawns; after rounding up the pawns I had about an hour left on the clock to try to mate him. Not only did I never thought that I would have to mate someone with N+B ever, but here I had to do it to win the tournament. 

Suddenly I felt very different about those obscure positions and studied them. If anything, it gave me the confidence to transition into an endgame, where I knew how to defend, or how to play for an advantage, instead of agreeing to a premature draw or even playing something dubious just to avoid that endgame. I was surprised to see how many times it was possible to outplay an otherwise equal opponent in an approximately level endgame.

I mean that white has to keep the pawn on h2, not on h3, because I have this in mind (as black can force one of the following constellations rather easily):
A)
http://www.jinchess.com/chessboard/pos=8/R7/7p/5p2/5P2/2k4P/p5K1/r7%20b%20-%20-

B)
http://www.jinchess.com/chessboard/pos=8/R7/7p/5p2/5P2/2k5/p5KP/r7%20b%20-%20-

In the top position, a transformation to a pawn endgame with 1...Rc1 2.Rxa2 Rc2+ wins, while in the bottom position the same transformation only draws. That's why white has to keep his pawn on h2.  

Is that what you have in mind, John?
http://www.jinchess.com/chessboard/pos=8/6k1/R6p/5pp1/5P2/6P1/p5KP/r7%20w%20-%20...

The position is very close. I think White just barely draws, as long as he keeps his pawn on h2(!). I'll try to post some analysis later.
Let’s just say that for any practical purposes White should have prevented the h6-g5 idea by having played h2-h4 in advance.

I think Black still wins, Pantu. Say White plays Kg3 in the position above, I think actually just an immediate …f4+ is good enough. Whether White plays Kf2 or Kh2 he can only move his rook after that, and Black can follow the general plan of …g4. fxg4 is forced (else …g3+ wins). Then Black can arrange …Kxg4, then he takes the king round to attack e4. Say White has played the tougher Kf2; Black arrives at the queenside and goes 1….Kb3 2 Rb8+ Kc3 3 Ra8 Kd3 4 Ra4 (all forced) and now 4…Rd1 5 Rxa2 Rd2+ 6 Rxd2 Kxd2 (as Ptero suggested above), and wins the pawn ending.

Black could traipse the king round to f1 before he does any of this, perhaps, and then after …f4+ (which now forces Kh2), back to g7 before going …g4 and so on. It’s much easier to win at the end with the king on h2 because Black has e3 and d3 for his king and can zugzwang White almost at once. But I don’t think he needs to.

This does raise another question I’d never considered: would the standard fgh endgame be won if White’s pawns were f4 g3 h2 against f5 g6 h7? Assume Black were allowed to go ….h6…g5 in peace (maybe White can play h4 to stop this, but one thing at a time). White still can’t take on g5 since the f-pawn wins. Would the same plan work? I think not because …h4 is not possible, since White can always prevent you recapturing after gxh4, by Rh8+ or Rh7+. And if you take on f4, then you can’t put him into zugzwang and win the f-pawn, because once you get Ke3 –v- Kg2 with the R on a4, even if it’s White’s move he can go Kh3 and if needed Kh4. You would win if you managed to get him to play h3 before setting this position up. I toyed with trying to force this by …Kh5 threatening ….Kg4, but White can always meet …Kg6 with Ra6+. Now if you go …Kh5 then h3 is fine, because he keeps his rook where it is and plays Kg2-h2 and the Black king can’t get out.

So I think the answer is no. Any endgame wizards want to show me how? Ptero?

IMJohnCox wrote on 02/14/07 at 17:53:01:


Indeed (thanks John, sorry if I wasn't clear)

BTW once the black King gets to the third rank, there are also thematic threats of simplification to pawn endings where black wins by obtaining the opposition, say, K on d3 where black can go Ra1-c1, white replies with Rxa2 and Black plays Rc2+ forcing an exchange

sorry - to get e+g it's the diagram position with pawn g3 and Kg2.  Then black plays fxe4. and after fxe4 Re1 Rxa2 Rxe4 we have the position.

Although thinking about it now instead of Re1 black has Kh6 again.  If he walks the king to g4 before grabbing on e4 his winning chances would be much improved.

But generally I don't think that black can force this position (but it's impossible to be conclusive).  I think in a practical game black should definitely play on and force white to demonstrate the drawing technique in the pawn was on g6.