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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience (Read 35228 times)
Willempie
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #63 - 03/20/07 at 11:46:32
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Maybe. But that was basically what the TD did. Either dont come near the board or dont talk, seems reasonable enough. If it goes for Danailov it goes for Taylor too Wink

Incidentally the original article seems to be "gone" from the chesscafe archives. Kafka at work? Hmm...
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #62 - 03/20/07 at 10:58:18
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If that were true the director would surely have simply told them to do their talking away from the table, not banned communication completely.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #61 - 03/20/07 at 10:28:17
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IMJohnCox wrote on 03/20/07 at 10:16:55:
i wish my every opponent was a cute girl, to be honest. But that's a different point, of course, behaviour which is actually distracting.

From what I read that is what the kid complained about. The others (dad, coach, Taylor) just add "cheating related" as additional argument. 

OT I think that playing against a cute girl will cost me chesswise Grin
  

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IMJohnCox
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #60 - 03/20/07 at 10:16:55
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i wish my every opponent was a cute girl, to be honest. But that's a different point, of course, behaviour which is actually distracting.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #59 - 03/20/07 at 07:34:26
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IMJohnCox wrote on 03/20/07 at 00:56:47:
The difference is that it matters whether there are bombs on planes or not. If Taylor WERE trying to suggest to his good lady that it might be good to leave rather fewer pieces en prise in the next game, well f*ck me, frankly, who cares?

I am sure you would welcome it if your next opponent is constantly whispering and cuddling with a cute looking girl, while you are trying to concentrate. Or worse when your opponent is the cute looking girl Wink
  

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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #58 - 03/20/07 at 03:53:48
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"If Taylor WERE trying to suggest to his good lady that it might be good to leave rather fewer pieces en prise in the next game, well f*ck me, frankly, who cares?"

Don't tell that to IM Friedel, I saw a game where in the final position when his opponent resigned every single one of his major and minor pieces was en prise.
  
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IMJohnCox
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #57 - 03/20/07 at 00:56:47
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The difference is that it matters whether there are bombs on planes or not. If Taylor WERE trying to suggest to his good lady that it might be good to leave rather fewer pieces en prise in the next game, well f*ck me, frankly, who cares?
  
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MNb
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #56 - 03/19/07 at 21:14:45
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Yes, but this argument is true for more regulations in daily life, isn't it? It is about the same, when military searches my luggage on the airport.
We cannot really figure out, if the boy (or his parents) did accuse Mr. Taylor from cheating or not. The ref did not, did not even give him a warning, but offered him a fair choice.
Mr. Taylor is the kind of man, who feels accused and insulted because military police searches his luggage before boarding his plane.
  

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IMJohnCox
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #55 - 03/19/07 at 13:19:08
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This is what administratively minded people always say of course, ‘oh good heavens no, we’re not accusing you of cheating, we’re merely barring you from talking to people during the game because those are the rules in place to prevent cheating.’ 

The trouble is that this is a legalistic fiction which ignores human nature and doesn’t work. What happens is that the rules, being annoying and inconvenient to those honest players who make up the overwhelming majority, are ignored until someone takes it into their head to suspect cheating and make a complaint, and only then enforced. The authorities, of course, wring their hands and say that if only the rules were always observed and enforced, by everyone, all the time, and any violation no matter how minor always reported as we have asked in our guidelines, no such problem would arise. But it doesn’t happen, and it never will. History has shown that by no process can this eternal truth be implanted into the mind of administrators.

The effect of the said fiction is also undermined if you promote the guidelines Mr Aigner quotes which urge children to report ‘cheating or rule violations’ to the authorities.
  
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JEH
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #54 - 03/16/07 at 12:48:41
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[quote author=Markovich link=1173878878/45#52 date=1174047314]Disliking smileys as I do, I sometimes use a "dear chessfriend" as an economical way of signalling my benignity.  But I probably don't do it often enough, and sometimes my posts are seen as more pointed than I wished them to be.[/quote]

But then you still might come across someone who interprets "dear chessfriend" as being patronising.

Because the internet increases the size of the audience, the probability that something you write is taken the wrong way by a reader is increased.

It might only take one comment taken the wrong way by one reader to start a flame war. Fortunatly trolling and flame wars on this forum are rare.

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Markovich
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #53 - 03/16/07 at 12:47:50
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Quote:
Wrt smileys, it's often difficult to discern a writer's tone in an off-the-cuff internet communication, hence some people use smileys simply to avoid the possibility of any misunderstanding. I think this can be a good thing, if applied intelligently.
The alternative, unstated, hypothesis, that Americans are a bunch of #@$s, is thus impossible to infer from the data, and awaits further tests  Cheesy


Well, it is quite possible that Americans are indeed a bunch of #@$s, but I doubt that many Americans would come here if that topic were very frequently being discussed.  I admit that we are playing a rather obnoxious role in world affairs just now, but ours is not the only nationality about which pejorative generalizations are possible.

As for John Cox's speculation that the presence of substantial cash awards in U.S. tournaments creates an incentive for cheating, and a corresponding hyper-sensititivity to its possibility, I am quite doubtful.  There are actually very few events here offering cash prizes that could be considered glittering, so this could hardly account for a national predisposition. Further, it is speculation that only cash, and not glory, could serve as an incentive for unethical conduct.  Most chess players that I know want to win very, very badly, even if there is no very big prize at stake.  Finally the theory does not explain why cheating does not arise in all chess events offering very substantial rewards, not only American ones.

One assumption that seems implicit in Cox's treatment of this question is that, of course, strong players would never cheat.  I can see no possible basis for that. They probably would not cheat against a weaker player, but even then, I could imagine a case where a very difficult, theoretical position has been reached, with which the weaker player appears to be highly familiar, and with which the IM or GM is not.  I can imagine that there might exist the tempation to excuse oneself and go consult one's sources. But leaving that aside, I can see no possible basis for assuming that a strong player might not decide to cheat against another strong player.

Indeed, it seems to me that part of the indignation that many people have over Topalov's complaint in Elista (for example; the Taylor case is analogous, however) is that the mere suggestion was made that Kramnik might have been cheating.  But to prevent impropriety is precisely why we have many of the rules of chess and associated rules governing chess matches.  If it were understood that, of course, everyone is a veddy sporting Eeenglish gentleman and a d---d fine trout fisherman, we could toss out the rules and play all our matches on a friendly basis, couldn't we? But since we understand that human nature is what it is, and the corresponding need for rules of this kind, we should never object when a player -- whether Topalov or some kid from New Jersey -- excercises his right of complaint under any given rule. It absolutely undermines the rule of law to reply to a player's complaint with, "What, look! This dog says that the Great Stromboli is cheating!!!"

Someone higher up this thread says that it is disengenuous to say that if a complaint under the rules might seem to suggest that someone is cheating, it is not an accusation of cheating. But the rules exist precisely to create a formal distinction between these two things. It is because we have the rules that we would not countenance anyone's jumping up and shouting, "You're cheating!" All he needs to do, instead, is to make a formal complaint under a given rule. And this same formality is what should make it possible for the players to continue respectful relations, regardless of the outcome of any given complaint. If we erase this distinction, we open the door to recrimination and, essentially, anarchy in chess. Or still worse, a system where players who happen to be strong can do whatever they like.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #52 - 03/16/07 at 12:15:14
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[quote author=Uberdeker link=1173878878/30#42 date=1173962969] Well, that's precisely the problem. Since "smileys" have become the norm, those who don't use them are never considered to be joking, and some light teasing is immediately viewed as a personal attack. I speak from experience , on this site and others. On the other hand, sticking your tongue out at someone is apparently supposed to be good-natured and fun...[/quote]

If you read the personal correspondence of many historical figures, going back to Greek and Roman times, you will see that it's larded with many complements and flatteries that would be nowadays, and probably would have been even in past times, more or less out of place if the same parties were being addressed through the spoken word.  My belief is that these somewhat overdone pleasantries are necessary to prevent precisely the kind of misunderstanding to which you refer.  If you use the plainness of common speech and say something meant to be ironic or merely pointed, it's often easy for a reader to take it as an insult.  By continuously flattering the recipient of our letter we avoid the possibility that he will mistake what we say as something unfriendly.  When it took ten days for a letter to go from Rome to Trier, the potential cost of some offhand remark being taken for an insult was much greater than today.

But larding our posts in internet fora with all these pleasantries is time-consuming, and can result in a message that's a little strange-sounding to the modern ear.  Smileys can be seen as an economical way of signalling the same thing.

Disliking smileys as I do, I sometimes use a "dear chessfriend" as an economical way of signalling my benignity.  But I probably don't do it often enough, and sometimes my posts are seen as more pointed than I wished them to be.
  

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MNb
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #51 - 03/15/07 at 21:03:38
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Willempie wrote on 03/15/07 at 19:11:27:
JonHecht wrote on 03/15/07 at 17:03:58:
If we are going to have a rule that a married couple with a newborn can't talk, because it is annoying, then we should have a rule that ill players can't take part in tournaments... or those with allergies. That is much more annoying, sneezing and coughing when you are trying to think. 

No problem, just inform your opponent about it. Since she is not as famous as her namesake (the one with the numerous marriages) I doubt anyone was aware she had a baby. 
I have had an opponent whose kid was sick at home, so he kept the cell phone on and I myself did the same because I expected a phone call. Just tell your opponent and the ref if applicable and I dont see a problem. It is an entire other issue when I dont tell and chat on the phone a couple of times and then act like the murdered innocence after my opponent complains.


Exactly. And this common sense is something Mr. Taylor seems to lack completely. Wished Willempie and I agreed to such extent on Dutch football  Wink (no apologies to UD).
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Willempie
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #50 - 03/15/07 at 19:14:05
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[quote author=Uberdeker link=1173878878/45#48 date=1173980490]
In my opinion, it is overall not a good thing, because the posts of those who do not use them are construed as being harsh and unfriendly. It creates more misunderstandings than it avoids.[/quote]
That is rather an argument to make the use of smileys mandatory ;D
;)
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Willempie
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Re: Taylor's so-called Kafkaesque Experience
Reply #49 - 03/15/07 at 19:11:27
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JonHecht wrote on 03/15/07 at 17:03:58:
If we are going to have a rule that a married couple with a newborn can't talk, because it is annoying, then we should have a rule that ill players can't take part in tournaments... or those with allergies. That is much more annoying, sneezing and coughing when you are trying to think. 

No problem, just inform your opponent about it. Since she is not as famous as her namesake (the one with the numerous marriages) I doubt anyone was aware she had a baby. 
I have had an opponent whose kid was sick at home, so he kept the cell phone on and I myself did the same because I expected a phone call. Just tell your opponent and the ref if applicable and I dont see a problem. It is an entire other issue when I dont tell and chat on the phone a couple of times and then act like the murdered innocence after my opponent complains.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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