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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) What to play against the sicilian? (Read 10848 times)
sssthepro
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Re: What to play against the sicilian?
Reply #30 - 06/24/07 at 03:27:50
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A certain FIDE 2100 friend of mine likes to play 2.d3 and has only lost about 4 games last year against rather formidable opponents.
  
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Bibs
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Re: What to play against the sicilian?
Reply #29 - 06/22/07 at 15:20:36
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KIA valid versus e6 (hence french also) of course but lacks any bite versus Nc6 or d6, as previously mentioned in this thread. 

Can perhaps use KIA to counter e6 stuff, or Bb5 stuff / Kopec Bd3  to counter d6 stuff while learning some systems and go the whole Open sicilian hog later. Learning everything at once quite a challenge, though perhaps dependent on age/ level / previous experience (you played open sicilian before?)

btw - agree with above - dont overdo g3 systems. No bad against Najdorf, particularly with nb3 rather than Nde2 (as Black Widow mentions above) 
Against Dragon -big no no. Against all other stuff, not bad at all. Davies book is reasonable - worth a look.


Perhaps even consider playing 2 g3. Underrated, few know it properly, even highly rated beings. Noone seems to play ...d5, which the books give, they just treat it as a closed. Pity the ...d5 lines can be fun for white as black needs to play carefully.
Some stuff in palliser's closed Sicilian book on this. A good text btw. The only good one on the closed.







  
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Re: What to play against the sicilian?
Reply #28 - 06/22/07 at 04:57:05
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I recommend the Kings Indian Attack if you really have no time to study. You can play that against French Defence as well.

The Kings Indian Attack is rich in thematic ideas and stuff, so you just need to play a lot and understand the little subtleties here and there...
  
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Willempie
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Re: What to play against the sicilian?
Reply #27 - 06/14/07 at 07:09:51
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Bibs wrote on 06/13/07 at 15:32:21:

DRAGON
Just a thought - most seem to be suggesting 000 v dragon. 
So...
Perhaps interested parties may make a collaborative effort toward putting a repertoire together, either here or dragon section. 
perhaps here as dragon section more for dragon defenders?
material can be cut and pasted from elsewhere (previous threads) as suitable but dont think an actual repertoire has yet been put together. I may well be wrong and if so apologies for repetition and wasting anyone's reading time.

Sections: 
1) ...Nd4  10 Bd4 Be6 11kb1
2) ...Bd7 (seems in trouble? less played nowadays?) 10 g4 ne5 11 kb1 rc8 etc
3) ...d5 (presumably : 10 ed, nd5, 11 nc6 bc 12 Bd4 e5, 13 Bc5 Be6 14 Ne4 etc) as in Adams-Rocha.

Just the outline there.

Have just about the whole dragon library here, so references to all main works fine with me.

Ideas? Please quote and expand the above if interested. If interest shown, can do some more myself later after a nasty work deadline has passed.


regards
Bibs

Maybe get experts against the sicilian? Sounds like the lines Golubev suggests.
  

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JEH
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Re: What to play against the sicilian?
Reply #26 - 06/13/07 at 20:02:31
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blueguitar322 wrote on 06/13/07 at 15:07:28:
  • 2...e6 and now KIA
  • 2...Nc6 and now Rossolimo (one of the strongest anti-Sicilians and reasonably thematic to play as White)
  • 2...d6 and I didn't like any of the anti-Sicilian options so now I play the main lines. English Attack vs Najdorf and Scheveningen (I play it as Black, so it's not too much more to study), Yugoslav with 9 O-O-O vs Dragon (less theory than 9 Bc4, avoids the Chinese and Soltis, maybe even objectively best), Richter-Rauzer vs the Classical.


  • That's very similar to me, although I've now replaced the KIA with d4 lines against 2. ...e6. I'll take a look at what Khalifmann has against the Svesh (Book 10 I think) to see if I switch from the Rossolimo.

    Anway, after switching to mostly opens, my best score is against the Sicilian, and I get very interesting games.
      

    Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

    Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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    Bibs
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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #25 - 06/13/07 at 15:32:21
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    blueguitar: seems a very sensible approach. For non-professionals and those who have little time to study (job/wife/kids) as the case with many of us here I guess, appears very reasonable. 
    have you had a look at Chris Baker's oldish book btw? an English IM. Something like 'Startling repertoire for white'. Also perhaps at kenilworthian blog, jeremysilman.com - joel benjamin articles. Food for anti-sic thought.
    Yes- agree, KIA nothing against d6. Perhaps you could also consider moro-style with Nf3 Qe2 against e6 too.

    DRAGON
    Just a thought - most seem to be suggesting 000 v dragon. 
    So...
    Perhaps interested parties may make a collaborative effort toward putting a repertoire together, either here or dragon section. 
    perhaps here as dragon section more for dragon defenders?
    material can be cut and pasted from elsewhere (previous threads) as suitable but dont think an actual repertoire has yet been put together. I may well be wrong and if so apologies for repetition and wasting anyone's reading time.

    Sections: 
    1) ...Nd4  10 Bd4 Be6 11kb1
    2) ...Bd7 (seems in trouble? less played nowadays?) 10 g4 ne5 11 kb1 rc8 etc
    3) ...d5 (presumably : 10 ed, nd5, 11 nc6 bc 12 Bd4 e5, 13 Bc5 Be6 14 Ne4 etc) as in Adams-Rocha.

    Just the outline there.

    Have just about the whole dragon library here, so references to all main works fine with me.

    Ideas? Please quote and expand the above if interested. If interest shown, can do some more myself later after a nasty work deadline has passed.


    regards
    Bibs
      
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    Willempie
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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #24 - 06/13/07 at 15:19:39
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    Sounds decent. One idea. The English can also be played against the classical, though I think Bg5 as you want to play is best.
      

    If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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    blueguitar322
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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #23 - 06/13/07 at 15:07:28
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    parisestmagique wrote on 06/13/07 at 07:33:02:
    I think it depends of the time you have to study and of your ambition. With a lot of time and good memory i think the best are the main lines : for exemple 9.000 against the Dragon, Be3 against the Najdorf etc. But you can also choose a KID system with e4,d3,g3. Less ambitious but interesting too

    Emms (in Starting Out: KIA) thinks the KIA setup (2 Nf3, 3 d3, 4 Nbd2, 5 g3, 6 Bg2, 7 O-O) is more effective against 2...e6, as in most of those lines Black would have preferred his pawn on e5 - or even e7. He believes it's much less effective against 2...Nc6 and 2...d6.

    Since I don't make money playing chess and don't have gobs of time...I tried to pick and choose which Open lines I should study. Here's what I came up with:
    • 2...e6 and now KIA
    • 2...Nc6 and now Rossolimo (one of the strongest anti-Sicilians and reasonably thematic to play as White)
    • 2...d6 and I didn't like any of the anti-Sicilian options so now I play the main lines. English Attack vs Najdorf and Scheveningen (I play it as Black, so it's not too much more to study), Yugoslav with 9 O-O-O vs Dragon (less theory than 9 Bc4, avoids the Chinese and Soltis, maybe even objectively best), Richter-Rauzer vs the Classical.
    This is basically three main lines (Najdorf/Schev, Dragon, Classical) and two less theoretical, but still dangerous, anti-Sicilians. For my needs, it's the best bang-for-buck I could find. When I have time, I'll learn the Keres proper vs. the Scheveningen...but for now, Black almost always includes an early ...a6 which are all lines I need to know vs. Najdorf...and most Schevy players use the Najdorf move order anyways.

    P.S. The good thing about the English Attack and Yugoslav is that, while both are theoretical, both are also "common sense" attacking ideas (opposite wing attacks) and so if I forget the theory, I still have a good idea of what my plan is and can make reasonable moves towards that goal. If I ever get to the level where opening theory is the deciding factor (not for a while, at least), then I'll have an advantage because of all my practical experience with the lines and a jump-start on the learning curve.
      
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    Black_Widow
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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #22 - 06/13/07 at 10:32:31
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    MNb wrote on 06/12/07 at 20:34:36:
    15.Ra2 is well known. Black is OK after Nc5 16.b3 Bb7 17.g4 e6 18.Ndf4 Qe7 Popovic-Zaltsman, New York 1986.I think the postion is balanced after 15 .. Nc5, but play is complicated, and the better prepared player has a practical advantage.
    Moreover, my friend, it would be fair not only to look for improvements for White. That's true. As I don't want to compete with Chris Ward - the game is in his update - I haven't analysed 22.Nb5. Even if this is good for White, I bet Black can deviate a few moves earlier as well, eg with 19...Ne5.
    So you may prefer to play the white pieces in this variation, but not because of objectivity. My intend was to show that from a g3 reportoire point, the dragon is no concern. Although I think the g3 system is often underestimated by dragon players. I do not claim a real advantage for white, only that white has the chance  to play for a win.

    I agree with Willempie, that the Jugoslav is objectively best. It is a whole lotta work though. Ofcourse

      
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    parisestmagique
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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #21 - 06/13/07 at 07:33:02
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    I think it depends of the time you have to study and of your ambition. With a lot of time and good memory i think the best are the main lines : for exemple 9.000 against the Dragon, Be3 against the Najdorf etc. But you can also choose a KID system with e4,d3,g3. Less ambitious but interesting too.chesscheese wrote on 06/04/07 at 14:03:32:
    I want to create a repertoire against the sicilian but I feel that it can't be the open sicilian.
    To me it feels like there is more theory then practical play in the open sicilian and that it takes away all creativeness and the fun.
    I could settle for something that is theoretically not so good but something that gives me good chances in the middlegame with some positional advantages.
    For a while I played the c3 sicilian because I felt I could get some positional plusses but my opponents always knew how to play for a draw and sometimes knew how to play until move 15-25 and I couldn't get any advantage here either. 

    I haven't played chess that long so I don't know what alternatives I have, 2.Nc3, 2.c3 etc. Maybe someone kind could give me a brief explanations on the different middlegames and how good they think these openings are to gain an advantage or just playable positions. I'm starting to play more difficult opponents now with 2000 ratings and sometimes even masters and I think it's time I found a response to the sicilian that I could stick with for a longer period of time. 

    Thanks for you help!

      
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    MNb
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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #20 - 06/12/07 at 20:34:36
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    15.Ra2 is well known. Black is OK after Nc5 16.b3 Bb7 17.g4 e6 18.Ndf4 Qe7 Popovic-Zaltsman, New York 1986.
    Moreover, my friend, it would be fair not only to look for improvements for White. As I don't want to compete with Chris Ward - the game is in his update - I haven't analysed 22.Nb5. Even if this is good for White, I bet Black can deviate a few moves earlier as well, eg with 19...Ne5.
    So you may prefer to play the white pieces in this variation, but not because of objectivity.

    I agree with Willempie, that the Jugoslav is objectively best. It is a whole lotta work though.
      

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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #19 - 06/12/07 at 18:28:33
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    Kotronias-Carlsson 0-1:
    1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 g6 6. g3 Nc6 7. Nde2 Bg7 8.
    Bg2 O-O 9. O-O Rb8 10. a4 a6 11. h3 b5 12. axb5 axb5 13. Be3 b4 14. Nd5 Nd7 15.
    Qc1 (15. Ra2 e6 16. Ndf4 Qc7 17. b3 Bb7 18. Qd2 Rfd8 19. Nd3 {
    I do not know if white has an advantage, but I prefer white here.}) 15... Re8
    16. Rd1 e6 17. Ndf4 Qc7 18. Ra2 Nf6 19. c4 {Interesting move.} b3 20. Ra3 Nd7
    21. Nc3 Nce5 22. Rd4 $2 {
    This looks like the mistake, which ruins white position.} (22. Nb5 Qxc4 23.
    Nxd6 Qxc1 24. Rxc1 $16 {And black is under heavy pressure.}) 22... Nxc4 23.
    Ncd5 exd5 24. Nxd5 Bxd4 25. Bxd4 {The final mistake.} (25. Nxc7 Bxb2 26. Qxc4
    Bxa3) 25... Qc6 26. Qh6 Nce5 27. Kh2 Qc2 28. Qg5 Bb7 29. Nc3 Nc5 30. Qf4 Ne6 

    So although Kotronias received a beating, I do not think it was the opening.
      
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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #18 - 06/12/07 at 10:45:09
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    6 g3 is pretty decent, although I need to check Kotronius-Carlsson, however. I will have a look tonight to that game.

    Taming the sicilian is a nice book to start a g3 based reportoire, but there are some remarks to be made:
    * the line 6 g3 given against the Najdorf with Nde2 to follow, does not play easy for white, and I doubt if white can get something more then equality. However Nb3 is very tricky to meet for black, who has then to fight for equality. Which is much better prospect then most other variations for white against the Najdorf.
    * the g3 line against the Kalashnikov I do not trust, although I did not analyse that deeply.
      
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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #17 - 06/12/07 at 07:47:09
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    Still (I cant edit my post for some reason) I dont think 6.g3 is bad against the dragon. But if you decide on this move against most sicilians you should get "taming the sicilian" which follows a g3-repertoire and has decent reviews.
      

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    Re: What to play against the sicilian?
    Reply #16 - 06/12/07 at 07:45:26
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    MNb wrote on 06/11/07 at 22:15:23:

    I am not enthusiastic about 6.g3 vs the Dragon. Kotronius-Carlsson, Malmö 2007, shows why.
    Kaplan-Khalifman, Dresden 2007, shows why I prefer 9.Kh1 to 9.Bg5.

    Against the dragon 6.g3 is indeed not really fearsome and I think the weakest of the g3 variations. 

    To be fair against the dragon I have never played anything but the yugoslav, I just keep scoring with it. So I am much less versed in the Be2 or g3 variations of the dragon than against other lines.
      

    If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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