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Poll Question: What is the best Systhem for black against 1.d4?
bars   pie

Queensgambit    
  3 (6.7%)
Slav    
  8 (17.8%)
Nimzowitsch(Bb4+)    
  12 (26.7%)
hedgehog    
  2 (4.4%)
Kingsindian    
  5 (11.1%)
Grünfeld-defence    
  5 (11.1%)
The Duch-Defence    
  10 (22.2%)




Total votes: 45
« Created by: Udav18 on: 07/07/07 at 18:15:59 »
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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) What to play against 1.d4? (Read 13736 times)
asmund
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #22 - 07/21/07 at 21:32:36
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That Dvoretsky book with the chapter about dutch stonewall is the book "Positional play" from 1996.
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #21 - 07/21/07 at 16:36:22
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Iljin Zhenevsky - bit clumsy to classify this as positional. well, none of the classifications too helpful really.

For anyone who thinks the IZ overly 'positional',  check out some Si Williams' (near-GM) games in this line. Best buy his book too. Simon certainly not a fellow backwards in coming forward. He is the leading guru in this so a lot can be learnt from his exploits.

For Leningrad, the Kindermann book is fair. 

Dont suggest the Stonewall. Tough to play. If you have to, check out the Kramnik piece in one of the Dvoretsky books.
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #20 - 07/21/07 at 16:11:42
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WOW,very interessting that nobody would play the Queensgambit.Whats the problem with it?
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #19 - 07/11/07 at 20:40:37
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While the recommendation of McDonald is good, I don't agree with the assessment "positional" concerning the IZ. In my experience the IZ frequently leads to very messy positions.
In thibdb13's example 9.Qc2 is a bad move; much better 9.e4 and also the irritating 9.Qb3. Because of the latter I prefer 8...Nc6, not fearing 9.d5 (Keith Hayward).
Fifty years ago 8.Re1 indeed was the main line, but since a few decades it is not anymore. Critical are 8.b3, 8.b4 and 7.b4.
In this section there are a few threads on the Iljin-Zjenevsky. You might check them, just to get an idea.

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1154209238/30#30

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1176071617

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1158622384/0#0

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1106473239/0#0
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #18 - 07/11/07 at 16:32:45
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Udav18 wrote on 07/10/07 at 19:41:48:
I would say i am a positional player,but to attak would be also nice^^
This System for positional players you mentoned ,can you show me the moves,how to get there?

Here is an example of the main line:
1.d4-f5 2.g3-Nf6 3.Bg2-e6 4.Nf3-d6 5.00-Be7 6.c4-00 7.Nc3-Qe8 8.Re1-Qg6 and here if white plays 9.Qc2 than: 9...Ne4 and if 10.Ne4 than: 10..fe4 11.Nd2-e3 and white may give up.
I'd recommend to you to buy Neil McDonald's book (Starting out: The dutch defence) to have a first contact with the theory and the idea's. The main systems are explained and there are recommendations against less common tries from white's side as 2.Bg5 or the staunton gambit.
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #17 - 07/10/07 at 19:41:48
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I would say i am a positional player,but to attak would be also nice^^
This System for positional players you mentoned ,can you show me the moves,how to get there?
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #16 - 07/10/07 at 18:19:33
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Udav18 wrote on 07/10/07 at 18:04:06:
Now it seems,that the Duch is the best for me,but what System ,would you recomend me?

Which type of player are you? 
Agressive --> Leningrad
Secure --> Stonewall
Positionnal (but with no fear) --> Ilyin-Zhenevsky (classical)
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #15 - 07/10/07 at 18:04:06
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Now it seems,that the Duch is the best for me,but what System ,would you recomend me?
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #14 - 07/10/07 at 04:12:22
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Udav18 wrote on 07/08/07 at 10:06:13:
Because I play them Smiley But I want an opening,which you can play allways and not only against d4+c4

1..e6 and 2..d5 should be possible against everything white can come up with. The quieter types might exchange the first move for 1..c6
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #13 - 07/09/07 at 16:24:40
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Udav18 wrote on 07/09/07 at 14:55:22:
Well I dont know if Duch is a good choice,I had never Problems to get an advantage with white against it.

Well, the Dutch can be quite difficult for black. You get holes and/or (very) weak points in your position for some counterplay. If you don't feel comfortable with this, it is not worth trying it. And when you go for the Dutch, you must choose which system you want to play: Stonewall, Ilyin-Zhenevsky, Leningrad or hybrid systems, each system has its particularities and they are all quite different.
I play the Dutch with black and have good results and when playing at the white side I have also good to very good results. One reason of that succes with white is that my opponents were often passive and waited for their chance while they should be active and try to provoke white to make some error.
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #12 - 07/09/07 at 14:55:22
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Well I dont know if Duch is a good choice,I had never Problems to get an advantage with white against it.
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #11 - 07/08/07 at 22:11:34
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JEH wrote on 07/08/07 at 15:31:42:
Udav18 wrote on 07/07/07 at 18:15:59:
I want to choose to play a solid opening.What is the best opening for me,if I want many winningchances and I am a strategical player ,who also is liked to attak Smiley


Udav18 wrote on 07/08/07 at 10:06:13:

But I want an opening,which you can play allways and not only against d4+c4 
Smiley


Well quite a tough requirement, but I reckon the KID with Nbd7 meets it.


Because of the second quote I change my recommendation and second the KID with Nbd7. Especially against the Classical setups with Be2 it is not very topical anymore since a few decades, but I have never read, that it is inferior.
KID with Nbd7 has the advantage of avoiding the Sämisch and Four Pawns:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 d6 3.Nc3 Nbd7 4.e4 e5
a) 5.d5 Be7 6.Be3 0-0 7.f3 c6 8.Bd3 Nc5 9.Nge2 cxd5 10.cxd5 Nfd7 and 11...Bg5, Yanosfky-Najdorf, Olympiade 1954.
b) 5.Nge2 c6 6.f3 (6.g3 g6) Be7 7.Qd2 d5!?

A critical line is 5.Nf3 g6 6.Be2 Bg7 7.0-0 0-0 8.Re1 c6 9.Bf1 a5 10.dxe5 dxe5 11.Na4.
« Last Edit: 07/09/07 at 16:55:43 by MNb »  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #10 - 07/08/07 at 20:10:28
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Grandmaster don't think, they  k n o w . (Or is that only in Zen Buddhism ?)
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #9 - 07/08/07 at 18:17:13
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What does GM Glenn Flear  think? Smiley
  
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Re: What to play against 1.d4?
Reply #8 - 07/08/07 at 18:03:04
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"Anyway how do you hope to reach a Hedgehog vs 1. d4 ??"
Ahm,just plaing hedgehog Smiley I dont really know,but i thought e6 ;b6 is Queensindinan and can also be a hedgehog after  c5 .
Ok maybe I had to write queensindian.
  
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