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Poll Question: Importanceof"MySysthem"and"Practise of Mysystem"nowadays



« Created by: Udav18 on: 07/15/07 at 13:08:02 »
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Nimzowitchs ideas (Read 5556 times)
Udav18
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #13 - 07/18/07 at 20:31:00
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Thanks for your answers!
i am now at a point where i can choose what to improve in my play.i wanted to start the second book of Nimz.(I have read the first one) to improve my positional play,but i am also not satisfied with my taktikal and endgame play.
I thought it would be better,if i would play positional and taktikal openings to understand not only positional,but also taktikal ideas.But it became clear to me that it is to much,I only get worse.
So what do I have to train taktiks or strategy,if I play 1.c4 with white and with black sharp openings as Najdorf?
And if strategy,how to train it  effectively?
Analyze my own games,look at GM games and try to find their moves,read books about strategy?
Or may be it is better to play through GM-games,where not only positional positions appear,but also sharp positions?
Perhaps I would improve,if I train more endgames?
(My Rating is now about 2050)
  
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JEH
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #12 - 07/18/07 at 18:23:03
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I read Nimzowitsch in my formative chess years and had a big leap in development which I credited to this. So I also went through a Nimzomania phase with my repetoire of the Nimzo-Larsen, Nimzowitsch defence and the Nimzo-Indian Shocked. However I don't know if my development would have improved anyway.

I was also playing the KIA, and in the long French line, the idea of overprotecting the e5 pawn made sense. In a simplistic way, I just saw it that if the attackers = defenders, then none of the defenders can move, but if you add another defender, then all the defenders can move.

I'm glad for having studied Nimzo's ideas, but they are only part of chess development.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #11 - 07/18/07 at 18:00:58
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Udav18 wrote on 07/18/07 at 12:05:10:
OK,I know now,that there were a few improvements since Nimzowitschs books,but were there also refutations of some of his ideas?
E.g. what is about the covering?Is that really so important as Nimzowich said?
Also there were a few ideas i couldnt really follow.
But the general question is:If I read Nimzowitschs books and start to play using his ideas,will I do something wrong,by using some wrong ideas?
That is what I am suspecting now.
Will I improve,if I will using his ideas or will I do something false by using his ideas?


There are a couple of problems with the book, some of them indicated by tafl. The main problem as I see it is that it overemphasises structural ideas and ignores dynamic things, plus with many ideas he only explains the idea without pointers. Eg overprotecting may be a nice idea, but he doesnt give any pointers on what to overprotect in your own games. Also the ideas he played at the board such as the Nimzoindian are hard to put in words, so he may be excused in that department.
Personally I found some ideas helpful, but it wasnt new in any way. Some of the ideas were even hurtful to me, eg attacking the base of a pawn chain, wait until you face the french and get slapped around with ..f6. 
I personally found Tarrasch or Euwe much more helpful in getting better, especially Tarrasch' annotations are quite good for people improving. It is surprisingly much like Fischer's 60 memorable games though aimed at a lower level.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #10 - 07/18/07 at 13:23:57
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This is a personal comment about the usefulness of Nimzovich in helping a strong player to improve:

When I graduated from high school, the only chess I had known about was a pretty poorly run scholastic scene.  I had seen the Fischer-Spassky match and had followed the world championships in the newspapers but had not read any books.  When I went to college upon graduation, I found My System and checked it out in the summer before school started.   

My rating jumped from something like 1450 to the mid-1700s in those few months and I always credit Nimzovich for that jump.  (I broke 2000 USCF within about a year and continued to improve for about five years before life got in the way.)

However, my play is not as dynamic as many players who had coaches or started studying at an earlier age.  Looking back, I think part of my problem was that my game was bound too much in the world of Nimzovich.   

Nimzovich is an important stepping stone to chess understanding, but he represents only a part of chess.  I recommend studying My System then following that up with Taimanov's Selected Games which includes a section called "In the world of Nimzovich's Ideas".  But then you will need to learn dynamic play as it's studied and played today.

For dynamic play, I would stay away from the many classics of chess instruction and go directly to books such as Fire on Board by Shirov or Igor Stohl's Instructive Modern Chess Masterpieces.   

I would also study tactics, tactics, tactics and play as much as possible.  Such a course may take up to a year of hard work but it would lay a sound basis for future improvement.
  
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #9 - 07/18/07 at 12:58:42
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Hello,


If you mean by "the covering"  over protection then yes this is one of the ideas that is discredited nowdays. The good points about "My System" was that it has some radical and thought provoking ideas. It is only natural that some of these have proven to be wrong after 80 years. 
              What I don't like about Watson's books is that he tries to use statistics in an attempt to be always right, and one of his main concepts "rule-independence" seems to me to replacing one theory by saying there is no theory, which is a bit nullist and unhelpful to me. Also at the start of his first book there is a statement like " this book is not designed to help you play better" or something similar, which seems  a bit strange to me.
                        Anyway I am not a fan of these two Watson books, but I have got them anyway, in case it is my chess understanding that is the problem, and I might change my mind about them someday.

Bye John S
  
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Udav18
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #8 - 07/18/07 at 12:05:10
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OK,I know now,that there were a few improvements since Nimzowitschs books,but were there also refutations of some of his ideas?
E.g. what is about the covering?Is that really so important as Nimzowich said?
Also there were a few ideas i couldnt really follow.
But the general question is:If I read Nimzowitschs books and start to play using his ideas,will I do something wrong,by using some wrong ideas?
That is what I am suspecting now.
Will I improve,if I will using his ideas or will I do something false by using his ideas?

  
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #7 - 07/18/07 at 03:22:35
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IM John Cox is of course right.  Tal wrote an introduction to a Russian edition of My System in which he discusses Petrosian's greater understanding of Nimzo's Blockade.  Bronstein made many positive comments about Nimzovich in his greatest work, Zurich International Chess Tournament, 1953.

Petrosian made many comments about the greatness of Nimzovich.  Smyslov ranked Nimzovich among his favorite authors as a child.  I think every time a Soviet played a Nimzovich system he or she was reminded of the historical importance of Nimzo.

John Watson may be only be an IM, but GMs have commented that his books are among the best chess books that have been written in the last decade.  The reviews of Watson's books on Nimzovich's ideas have been almost entirely positive.  (Yes, GMs have reviewed his books.)

Oh yeah, that legendary Soviet trainer, Mark Dvoretsky, has contributed to deeper understandings of Nimzovich and has come up with some improvements.  But I guess we should ignore him because he too is only an IM.

Cheers!

Smiley
  
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #6 - 07/17/07 at 23:35:13
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I find Spraggett's comments about Russian Gms despising Nimzovich rather surprising. Professional curmudgeons like Yermo, sure, but I seem to recall Petrosian and Bronstein expressing a different view.
  
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #5 - 07/17/07 at 20:50:03
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There are a two major problems with Nimzowitsch books:
1) To a large extent he stole other players' ideas and presented them as his own
2) His game comments are very often misleading. It's hard to believe this was not done intentionally. 

My System was mainly written in order to promote himself as a WC challenger (he actually deserved a shot at the title), and can probably only be understood in this context.
See Spraggett's home page for a GM view: http://www.kevinspraggett.com/Nonimzo.htm.
  

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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #4 - 07/17/07 at 11:14:00
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Udav18 wrote on 07/17/07 at 10:17:08:
John Watson,is not really a know GM,so I dont really think that he knows more than Nimzowich have known!


Well, I think the seven decades of grandmaster practice since Nimzovich helps things a bit for Watson!

Cute picture, JEH.   Cheesy
  

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Udav18
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #3 - 07/17/07 at 10:17:08
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John Watson,is not really a know GM,so I dont really think that he knows more than Nimzowich have known!
  
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #2 - 07/16/07 at 19:19:24
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Get John Watson's "Secrets of Modern Chess Strategy - Advances Since Nimzowitsch"

I can't post anything more here, as then they wouldn't be secrets  Wink


  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Udav18
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Re: Nimzowitchs ideas
Reply #1 - 07/16/07 at 16:26:05
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Which of his ideas are wrong?
  
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Udav18
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Nimzowitchs ideas
07/15/07 at 13:08:02
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Hi,I know that most of the best GMs have read the books of Nimzowich,but are all of his ideas important nowadays.The covering e.g. seems a little bit strange to me.
  
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