Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Dutch via 1...e6 (Read 9362 times)
MNb
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #14 - 08/01/07 at 02:49:04
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As Dutch quizmasters like to say:

door naar de volgende ronde!
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #13 - 07/31/07 at 05:14:52
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DING DING DING!!!

Yes, sssthepro is right, it was Botvinnik who dominated world chess from 1948-1963 and often played 1...e6 in response to 1.d4!
  
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sssthepro
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #12 - 07/30/07 at 07:24:34
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Is it Botvinnik?
  
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FirebrandX
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #11 - 07/30/07 at 01:56:28
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I enjoy playing the french just as much as the stonewall dutch, so I crack a slight smile when white plays e4 after my 1...e6 move. 1...e6 gets rid of a lot of headaches abound in anti-dutch systems.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #10 - 07/19/07 at 03:36:44
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Alumbrado may be right, but I would love to play the French as Black!

Most players below a certain level are not ambidextrous (they can't play 1.e4 and 1.d4 equally well), and the French is an excellent complement to the Dutch for Black.  I seem to remember a certain world champion who had tremendous success this way.  Who was it now.... 1948-1966 rings a bell, but there were so many....  Hmmm...

Roll Eyes
  
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MNb
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #9 - 07/19/07 at 03:01:20
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Quote:

MNb, could you point me to any good references on the Rubinstein? Thanks.


My references are golden oldies (1964 and 1980) ... I hardly dare to give the titles, as I don't want to discourage Alumbrado getting back to this forum  Cheesy.

MarinFan of course is right - I forgot 4...Bb4. Taimanov (oops) then gives 5.Qc2 0-0 6.Bd3 d6 like a game Bronstein-Botvinnik from the WCh match 1951. Even Williams does not claim full equality, citing Lautier-Vaisser, FRAch 2001 (Marseile) and giving 16.Rfd1 as an improvement. I don't know what Pinski and McDonald have to say.
White will have to do his own work, but that is not necessarily a bad thing. Personally I believe, that a well prepared player can get good positions with the Rubinstein, especially in OTB chess.
  

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alumbrado
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #8 - 07/17/07 at 19:08:58
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After 1.d4 e6 the correct move is 2.e4 transposing to the French.  Why?  Because all other moves allow Black to transpose to the Queen's Gambit Declined, which is better for Black than the French Wink
  

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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #7 - 07/17/07 at 12:28:49
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Hello,

One line Mnb might have missed in the Rubinstein is 4... Bb4. In the past Bronstein and Botvinnik played this quite a lot from both sides, but don't know current theory.

Bye John S
  
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #6 - 07/17/07 at 11:34:24
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Or even a good book on all of the Dutch lines ?
(We should have commented bibliographies here, I mean list of opening books with an evaluation of them)
  
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #5 - 07/17/07 at 10:12:48
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Thanks, guys, plenty to chew on here.

I think I'll have a closer look at the Rubinstein, as it dovetails well with the rest of my repertoire and I have some familiarity with many of the lines from the Nimzo Rubinstein.
2) Nf3 would take me out of my reprtoire if Black plays 2...Nf6 or ...d5.

MNb, could you point me to any good references on the Rubinstein? Thanks.
  

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MNb
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #4 - 07/16/07 at 22:10:09
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Imo 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.Bg5 is close to a positional mistake. The exchange of the dark squared bishops favours Black. He will continue with ...d6 and ...e5.
1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.h3 Nf6 4.g4 d5 is not just a bit dull, it scores well for Black. At the other hand White may try 5.c4 heading for an Anti-Stonewall setup as mentioned in my previous post.

1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 f5 3.e4 fxe4 4.Ng5 Nf6 5.f3 c5! (e3 followed by a queenside fianchetto also looks playable) 6.fxe4 cxd4 7.Bd3 Nc6 (Qa5+!?) 8.0-0 Bd6! is OK for Black.
  

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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #3 - 07/16/07 at 22:03:02
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Against 1...e6 I would rather recommend 2. Nf3 f5 3. e4!? which according to Mega Database 2007 scores really good for white.
  
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #2 - 07/16/07 at 21:10:24
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You could give 1.d4 e6 2. Sf3 f5 3. h3 Sf6 4. g4!? a shot. 

The best that will happen is 4..hg: 5. hg: Sg4:?! 6. Dd3!  and Black might regret snaffling the pawn. 

The worst : Simon Williams appears to play 4..d5 which is a bit dull but cuts outs White tricks.

Worth a punt maybe?

or lines with 3. Lg5 might be OK?
  
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MNb
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Re: Dutch via 1...e6
Reply #1 - 07/16/07 at 20:58:11
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There is the Miles Variation 1.d4 e6 2.Nf3 e6 3.d5, but I don't find this particularly discomforting for Black.
If you don't mind to invest a little more time, the Rubinstein Variation is interesting and somewhat underestimated.
1.d4 e6 2.c4 (the "smart" 2.Nf3 f5 3.e3 Nf6 4.Bd3 b6! gives Black a good game) f5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3
a) 4...b6 5.Bd3 Bb7 6.f3
b) 4...d5 5.Bd3 c6 6.Nf3 Bd6 7.Qc2 0-0 8.h3 intending g2-g4 at some point.
c) 4...Be7 5.Bd3 0-0 6.Nf3
c1) 6...b6 7.0-0 Bb7 8.d5 (or 8.b3 first) Na6 9.e4
c2) 6...d5 7.Qc2 like line b.
c3) 6...d6 7.0-0 Qe8 8.e4 Van den Berg-Burstein, Tel Aviv 1958.

Black probably can get equality, especially in variation c1, but it is not as harmless as it seems.
And, as a bonus, if you ever grow tired of 2.Bg5, you only have to add the Leningrad.

PS you face the same problem after 1.d4 d6. I know someone, who combines the Pirc with the Leningrad.
« Last Edit: 07/16/07 at 21:59:29 by MNb »  

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Dink Heckler
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Dutch via 1...e6
07/16/07 at 11:41:09
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I play 2) Bg5 vs the Dutch.

Lately, I notice a trend towards a lot of Dutch players avoiding this (and other) lines by starting with 1...e6.
There's now a subtle calculus involved, as to whether one wants to call Black's bluff and play 2) e4, which is a bit of a bluff itself for non-e4 players.

Let's say I don't want to transpose into a French. What other ideas could I use to discomfit Black in this move order. Or is this move order completely costless other than allowing White a transposition to the French? What ususally happens is I end up n an inferior stonewall structure due to my relative lack of familiarity with the structure.

This all boils down to a battle of information and precommitment, I suppose. So, are there avenues to explore to exploit Black's precommitment to ...e6?
  

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