Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/23/07 at 12:39:37:


This is not 100% true. Especially Van Hanegem, Neeskens and Wouters were very rough players. What is true, is that Dutch players don't really enjoy playing for Oranje at the moment.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/23/07 at 12:39:37:


Understandable, but around 1984 the nadir was even lower.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/23/07 at 12:39:37:


In addition to Willempie, whose remarks on Van Basten I cannot contradict anymore, this. Since ten years or so Oranje has problems in the defense. Especially there are no good Dutch backs anymore, but Oranje also needs a good defending midfielder in my opinion. Van Bommel, Van der Vaart and Schneider basically are the same type of player.
Another problem is that since the successes of Michels and Rijvers in the early 70's many coaches are addicted to developing rigid systems. Van Gaal, not by chance the most unsuccesfull coach of Oranje lately, is an extreme example of this. It looks like Van Basten follows a similar path. This is nice and well when coaching a club team, but is often disastrous for a national team. The choice of good players after all is limited and they don't always fit in the coach's system. The problem Van Basten basically has with Van Nistelrooij is that the latter does not play the way Van Basten did himself. RVN being the most successfull Dutch forward (Real Madrid has sold no one less than Ronaldo) of the last decade, Van Basten should adapt, but it looks like he is not capable of doing that.
Frankly I think it is time for a foreign coach. That worked very well in Argentina 1978, so why not again? I am pretty sure, that some pragmatic Italian would say: OK, we take Seedorf and Van Nistelrooij, let me see if I can find a solid defense and then we will build a team. To hell with beautiful play, that was not the case in 1978 either.
Another problem is of course that Oranje has about 12 million coaches. That is not an argument, as Brazil suffers from the same.
One of the worst things of the last tournament was, that Germany almost played like Oranje did in better days ....

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/23/07 at 13:24:44:

Not the Dutch teams. Cruijff, Van Hanegem, Krol, Jansen and Neeskens all have become coaches, but not all of world class. The same with Koeman, Rijkaard, Gullit and Van Basten.
Weren't Keegan and co from the late 70's though? First Ajax dominated, then Bayern München iirc.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/23/07 at 04:24:08:


Well, it wasn't all grief, my wife's Irish side looked handy against Denmark, and I was rather pleased to see a strong performance from Hungary.  It would be nice to see a resurgence from the Hungarians...

Willempie (and other fans of Dutch football), 

Is it just the coach?  In the 1970s and 1980s the Oranje vyed with England for being the best sports (fewest cautions) at the world cups.  They were a joy to watch in part because they obviously enjoyed playing.   

This last World Cup was the nadir of Dutch football in many respects despite some of their successes, but the Oranje have been sliding down my list of favorite teams to watch for several years.   

What's going on?  You still have excellent players in many key positions, but they always seem angry and frustrated.  Yes, the coach is largely responsible for the attitude of the team, but the players and the fans also play their part.  Again, what's going on with the Oranje?

England lost to the Germans at Wembley.  The US lost to Sweden, so no celebrations here either, MNb.   

But at least I have beer in my cupboard!

Rob Styles, the referee for the Liverpool-Chelsea game, has admitted to making a mistake when he awarded a penalty to Chelsea in the last 20 minutes of the game.  He won't be refereeing this weekend.

That's small consolation for Liverpool, and Murinho rubbed salt in our wounds by saying that the game was reffed fairly.  The manager for Chelsea went on to say that the players didn't help the ref.  I'm guessing he isn't referring to his own players.  Joe Cole had the ball bounce off him and yet he appealed for a corner.  Drogba was very derisive to the ref even after the penalty had been awarded, and Essien stood over a dead ball while Styles waved a yellow card in his general direction.  (Styles later stated that the card was confirmation of a yellow he had given Terry about two minutes (real time) earlier which resulted in the free kick.)

So far, Liverpool has given up two goals in two games, and both were penalties.  One was a really bizarre bounce that hit Carragher's arm and had to be called.  The other was a really bizarre call from a ref who had lost control of the match.

So if that's the end of Liverpool's bad luck and we still have 4/6 possible points, then Liverpool may well be in a great position to win the League this year!

Let's go Reds!

Willempie wrote on 08/20/07 at 07:22:08:


I already have. Nothing special, that Twente has won, is it? And if you really are that proud of Ajax' result, that only shows how little confidence you have in your favourites. 

Will be a tough season for Birmingham.....as usual

On the other hand only 1 point behind ManU after 3 games cant be that bad


PS @Mnb, you should check the dutch results of last weekend. You'll prolly notice some uplifting results

Sven sure looks like an early candidate for manager of the year.  Unless Liverpool wins the league.