Poll
Poll closed Question: Who will be the next world champion?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Kramnik    
  21 (38.2%)
Anand    
  16 (29.1%)
Leko    
  0 (0.0%)
Aronian    
  9 (16.4%)
Morozevich    
  1 (1.8%)
Grischuk    
  0 (0.0%)
Svidler    
  1 (1.8%)
Gelfand    
  0 (0.0%)
Topalov should have been invited    
  7 (12.7%)




Total votes: 55
« Created by: thibdb13 on: 08/23/07 at 15:39:39 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) WCC Mexico City 2007 (Read 55922 times)
Smyslov_Fan
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #147 - 09/28/07 at 04:49:56
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thibdb

I do suspect that Kramnik's game will stand up to scrutiny far better than Gelfand's.  From a sporting perspective, they are both very impressive.  From an aesthetic perspective, Kramnik's win left me breathless. 

I do love a good game of chess!
  
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thibdb13
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #146 - 09/28/07 at 04:30:08
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/28/07 at 04:16:18:
I don't know which is more impressive, beating Aronian as Black in this tournament or beating Leko at all when Leko's game is back on track.


Well, in this case I find Kramnik's win more impressive: he sacrificed an exchange to get a strong initiative and ended a piece up. Not so bad for a positional player!! Gelfand on his side was helped by Aronian as his piece sacrifice did not prove to be justified but I must acknowledge Gelfand's cool blooded reaction is also a sign of his actual (very) high level.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #145 - 09/28/07 at 04:20:09
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Btw, 

Willempie and I have a bet on.  If things remain as they are, we both win, but Willempie will be more of a winner because he selected Gelfand and I chose Kramnik to finish above 50%.

Of course, the big game is tomorrow, when Gelfand has White against Kramnik.  This should be a great slugfest.  The only caveat is that if Gelfand plays for a draw as White, I don't know that Kramnik will go after him.  Both players are great fighters and there is quite a bit at stake in the rivalry that is beginning to grow between them.  I hope I'm right in predicting another great game.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #144 - 09/28/07 at 04:16:18
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I don't know which is more impressive, beating Aronian as Black in this tournament or beating Leko at all when Leko's game is back on track.

Wow, it looks like Gelfand really is for real, and Kramnik really is a world champion-calibre player! Cool

I will certainly enjoy perusing the games from this tournament.  I think this ranks as the greatest tournament of the new millenium in terms of the quality of the games and what is at stake.  The games seem to be of a much higher level than even the last WC tournament.  

Any sour grapes I have regarding whether this is an appropriate way to prove the best player in the world is certainly mitigated by the great vintage of games played!

  
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chk
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #143 - 09/27/07 at 20:55:51
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Yes, but he was a champion when he forfeited that 5th game of the match
  

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MNb
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #142 - 09/27/07 at 20:53:09
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Quote:

On draughts:
I think the way it is (or was organised) is as follows:
A tournament every four years. If the current word champion wins, he retains his title for four years till the next
tournament. If he doesnt win, he has the right on a return-match against the winner after two years. 


I thought, if the current WCh wins, nr.2 would play the match. But I am not sure.
Such a format has another advantage: it is cheaper. Last 20 years or so it has become more and more difficult to raise funds for Candidate Matches. It seems to me that finding sponsors for a tournament and a match every four years will not give much trouble at all.
I am looking forward to Kramnik-Anand, will be exciting without the scandals involved last match.
  

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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #141 - 09/27/07 at 18:34:05
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Scholar wrote on 09/27/07 at 17:19:59:
chk wrote on 09/27/07 at 10:59:23:

P.S.: I think Kramnik already saves energy for the match with Anand. He also does not wish to reveal his card with the Petroff. His latest game with Anand was fierce because whoever would have win it would gain an important psychological advantage for the match.


Agreed.  Kramnik prepared the Petroff for the tournament and there's no reason to reveal any other secrets at this point, when he's unlikely to win (and frankly doesn't gain a whole lot from doing so).

Barring any spectacular collapse by Anand in these last few games, I am looking forward to an Anand-Kramnik match.

To be honest, I dont. Kramnik seems rather "lucky" at getting 2nd chances for his title. And there always seems to be some excuse when he is not performing well. 
Illness, tiredness, saving energy, whatever...Not really a champion in that respect.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #140 - 09/27/07 at 17:19:59
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chk wrote on 09/27/07 at 10:59:23:

P.S.: I think Kramnik already saves energy for the match with Anand. He also does not wish to reveal his card with the Petroff. His latest game with Anand was fierce because whoever would have win it would gain an important psychological advantage for the match.


Agreed.  Kramnik prepared the Petroff for the tournament and there's no reason to reveal any other secrets at this point, when he's unlikely to win (and frankly doesn't gain a whole lot from doing so).

Barring any spectacular collapse by Anand in these last few games, I am looking forward to an Anand-Kramnik match.
  
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chk
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #139 - 09/27/07 at 10:59:23
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That draughts thing makes sense to me. It is similar to what is happening now with the Mexico tournament and a subsequent match vs. Kramnik.

The Champion participating in the tournament also makes sense, e.g. imagine a 'worthy' contender arises out of the tournament and proceeds to play the match against the current champion: they will both be equally tires and strained of resources (e.g. opening novelties, etc.).

Yep, it makes sense to me

P.S.: I think Kramnik already saves energy for the match with Anand. He also does not wish to reveal his card with the Petroff. His latest game with Anand was fierce because whoever would have win it would gain an important psychological advantage for the match.
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #138 - 09/27/07 at 07:37:39
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Quote from GM. Marin commenting on Anand-Morozovich:

"An important moment in modern chess history. Anand's most dangerous trailers, Kramnik and Gelfand, had finished their games hours earlier and a draw would have maintained his comfortable lead in the tournament. The ambitious decision to play on will lead to a slightly irrational position, without any safety net for White. Therefore, Anand deserves the highest praise for the way he chose to climb up to the highest peak of the chess pyramide. This is the kind of World Champion the public needs"

Kramniks 13-move draw was not a record in world-champion chess.
I think Kasparov and Kramnik hold the record: 
The 11-move draw with Kasparov as white in the 7th game of Kasparov-Kramnik match 2000.
Also in the same match there was the 14-move draw in the 14th game (Kasparov again behind the white pieces), good for a third place?
These two short draws with white were rather atypical for Kasparovs fighting chess in the decade 1990-2000, indicating that Kasparov was not his usuall self during this match.

On draughts:
I think the way it is (or was organised) is as follows:
A tournament every four years. If the current word champion wins, he retains his title for four years till the next
tournament. If he doesnt win, he has the right on a return-match against the winner after two years. 

]The rational behind this was:
If the WC wins the tournament, there is no "worthy" contender for the title.
If the tournament produces a new champ, 
he has to show he can hold his own against the former world championship in a match.


  
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Willempie
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #137 - 09/26/07 at 10:05:49
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/26/07 at 02:18:35:
Willempie,

I don't normally bet unless I know the result.  I guess I only bet when I'm accepting charity.

But your wager sounds like fun!  You're on.

If both players break 50% or if neither does, then it's a wash, agreed?  




(For the non-fluent English speakers, a "wash" is a colloquial term for a draw in which everything, such as the bet, gets washed away.)

It'll be fun and yes I think a wash is fair.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #136 - 09/26/07 at 07:27:37
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Why? Draughts (the 100 square version) alternates: every four years a tournament and every four years a match. Since San Luis I am convinced that such a format would work in chess excellently.


@MNb: Interesting to know that (2+2 years may seem better for chess). But still, if you want to know the ultimate truth on who is better between 2 players, then for me, it is match play. Of course nerves and psychology matter a lot, maybe even more than 'pure' chess skills and artistry, but.. It's like when you were young: I wouldn't think of ELOs or tournament wins; the really important milestones were when I would improve so to beat a strong player (which was out of reach until then ).

Quote:
Nice to see some variation in the openings used. I wish we could see some more sicilians! 
Anand-Morozevich should please you then!  I wasn't able to follow the game (or even really look at it yet), but it looks like Anand is winning which would practically clinch the tournament for him.


Yes! What a nice game. I really enjoyed that one (I also like these 2 players a lot). Remember in San Luis: it was Morozevich winning a Caro-Kann brilliancy against Anand!
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #135 - 09/26/07 at 05:56:08
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 09/26/07 at 05:53:55:
What's with this dead language fetish at the Pub?

Huh

Sorry, just came back from the pub and started working  Cheesy
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #134 - 09/26/07 at 05:53:55
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What's with this dead language fetish at the Pub?

Huh
  
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thibdb13
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #133 - 09/26/07 at 05:42:00
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Alea jacta est. Anand imperator erit! But, for how long?
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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