Poll
Poll closed Question: Who will be the next world champion?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Kramnik    
  21 (38.2%)
Anand    
  16 (29.1%)
Leko    
  0 (0.0%)
Aronian    
  9 (16.4%)
Morozevich    
  1 (1.8%)
Grischuk    
  0 (0.0%)
Svidler    
  1 (1.8%)
Gelfand    
  0 (0.0%)
Topalov should have been invited    
  7 (12.7%)




Total votes: 55
« Created by: thibdb13 on: 08/23/07 at 15:39:39 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) WCC Mexico City 2007 (Read 55900 times)
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #177 - 10/01/07 at 13:54:50
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Willempie wrote on 10/01/07 at 12:58:43:
castlerock wrote on 10/01/07 at 12:34:39:
SF,

Try recalculating on the basis of elo. You might get a different result! Tournament stats could be tweaked to our advantage. They went to the bottom half because Anand helped them to get there!

Illustrated by ELO performance:
Anand 2792 + 56 = 2848
Kramnik 2769 + 30 = 2799
Gelfand 2733 + 71 = 2804

Basically the difference between SB points which only measure the results inside the tournament (SF) and their ranking (Elo)

And yes I rather have matches too, but I dont like this current "revanche match" attitude, where you have to win over and over again if you happen to win over the favourites. It greatly enhances the confusion. I for one dont know what will happen next and what it means...


Willempie: What is SB points? I also see them in the results table of an ongoing CC tournament I play.
  

Don't check me with no lightweight stuff.
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castlerock
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #176 - 10/01/07 at 13:35:15
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Willempie wrote on 10/01/07 at 12:58:43:
castlerock wrote on 10/01/07 at 12:34:39:
SF,

Try recalculating on the basis of elo. You might get a different result! Tournament stats could be tweaked to our advantage. They went to the bottom half because Anand helped them to get there!

Illustrated by ELO performance:
Anand 2792 + 56 = 2848
Kramnik 2769 + 30 = 2799
Gelfand 2733 + 71 = 2804



I didn't mean it that way. If you take the top 4 or 5 players based on elo at the beginning of the tournament and revise the plus score calculations Anand may come out on top.

And yes. Playing so many matches may be trying on the winner. Lets hope it is a one time aberration.
  

CastleRock
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Willempie
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #175 - 10/01/07 at 12:58:43
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castlerock wrote on 10/01/07 at 12:34:39:
SF,

Try recalculating on the basis of elo. You might get a different result! Tournament stats could be tweaked to our advantage. They went to the bottom half because Anand helped them to get there!

Illustrated by ELO performance:
Anand 2792 + 56 = 2848
Kramnik 2769 + 30 = 2799
Gelfand 2733 + 71 = 2804

Basically the difference between SB points which only measure the results inside the tournament (SF) and their ranking (Elo)

And yes I rather have matches too, but I dont like this current "revanche match" attitude, where you have to win over and over again if you happen to win over the favourites. It greatly enhances the confusion. I for one dont know what will happen next and what it means...
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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castlerock
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #174 - 10/01/07 at 12:34:39
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SF,

Try recalculating on the basis of elo. You might get a different result! Tournament stats could be tweaked to our advantage. They went to the bottom half because Anand helped them to get there!

Anand won the only world championship that was available and Kramnik has the right to give it a chance in 2008. Thats it, really.
  

CastleRock
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Willempie
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #173 - 10/01/07 at 12:16:36
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 10/01/07 at 11:31:44:
My one qualm about the tournament style of determining a champion can be seen by the relative scores of only the top four players against each other.

If you count those scores, 

Kramnik would be first at +1
Anand and Gelfand tied at =
Leko 4th at                      -1

Of course Anand won the tournament, and he did it in Petrosianic style.  He scored all his wins against the lower half of the field without losing any games at all.  (I actually predicted that both Anand and Kramnik would do this, but Vladya went and lost inexplicably to Morozevich.  Angry )

Only a match between the top two players would eliminate the problem of the WC being awarded to the player who is most efficient against weaker players rather than to the best player in a head-to-head competition.

That's a bit of unlogical logic Wink
The reason the "others" were lower was because they were beaten by Anand and/or Gelfand, not because Leko is inherently better than Svidler or Moro.
Plus I think "killing off" weaker opponents is also a chess strength.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #172 - 10/01/07 at 11:31:44
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My one qualm about the tournament style of determining a champion can be seen by the relative scores of only the top four players against each other.

If you count those scores, 

Kramnik would be first at +1
Anand and Gelfand tied at =
Leko 4th at                      -1

Of course Anand won the tournament, and he did it in Petrosianic style.  He scored all his wins against the lower half of the field without losing any games at all.  (I actually predicted that both Anand and Kramnik would do this, but Vladya went and lost inexplicably to Morozevich.  Angry )

Only a match between the top two players would eliminate the problem of the WC being awarded to the player who is most efficient against weaker players rather than to the best player in a head-to-head competition.
  
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #171 - 10/01/07 at 09:53:03
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Anand now also on top in the FIDE ELO ratings list and he beat 2800!
  
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #170 - 10/01/07 at 09:12:36
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exigentsky wrote on 10/01/07 at 01:37:51:
Some people on the Redhotpawn.com forums are claiming that the title is not so clear because a World Championship Title should be decided in match play, one on one and not in a tournament. See http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=78007 What are everyone's thoughts on this?

It is well clear that Anand won the championship due to his better results against the "weaker" participants. He has not been able to beat Kramnik nor Gelfand during the tournament and this is an argument in favour of a matches system: you must show on each stage of the competition that you are better than your opponent.
Now, the participants were supposed to be the best ones in the world and Kramnik nor Gelfand were able to crush them as often as Anand, so there is no reason doubting about the fact that Anand deserves his title. 
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #169 - 10/01/07 at 08:56:21
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So what happens now? Anyone knows with all these new setups for the WC?
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #168 - 10/01/07 at 02:28:11
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exigentsky wrote on 10/01/07 at 01:37:51:
Some people on the Redhotpawn.com forums are claiming that the title is not so clear because a World Championship Title should be decided in match play, one on one and not in a tournament. See http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=78007 What are everyone's thoughts on this?


This is just plain silly Huh There is no doubt that Anand is World Champion. While I agree that a match is preferable in deciding the championship and it follows tradition, this does not mean that it is the only way and that any other method is automatically disqualified. Kramnik himself agreed to the terms of the championship.....duh!!!The idea that Annad is now not the true world champion is so proposterous, it is not even worthy of debate. Ssshh
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #167 - 10/01/07 at 01:37:51
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Some people on the Redhotpawn.com forums are claiming that the title is not so clear because a World Championship Title should be decided in match play, one on one and not in a tournament. See http://www.redhotpawn.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=78007 What are everyone's thoughts on this?
  
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #166 - 09/30/07 at 18:02:32
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Congratulations to Vishy Anand. He deserves this title and has finally reached what has been expected from him for years.
I'd also like to congratulate Boris Gelfand for his performance this WCC.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #165 - 09/30/07 at 08:06:22
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I would like to add my congrats to Anand too. So, Vishy, when you're reading this... Smiley

I hope your reign will be free of controversy and that you will make an excellent ambassador for the chess world.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #164 - 09/30/07 at 04:41:17
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Bravo Anand! I think a very tight match will follow now..

Kramnik & Gelfand played also chess of a very high standard.

Best wishes also to Morozevich for providing us (well, me!) with the most entertaining games Smiley
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #163 - 09/30/07 at 02:16:22
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Congratulations to Anand!


Looking ahead, when will the match with Kramnik be?
  
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