Poll
Poll closed Question: Who will be the next world champion?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Kramnik    
  21 (38.2%)
Anand    
  16 (29.1%)
Leko    
  0 (0.0%)
Aronian    
  9 (16.4%)
Morozevich    
  1 (1.8%)
Grischuk    
  0 (0.0%)
Svidler    
  1 (1.8%)
Gelfand    
  0 (0.0%)
Topalov should have been invited    
  7 (12.7%)




Total votes: 55
« Created by: thibdb13 on: 08/23/07 at 15:39:39 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) WCC Mexico City 2007 (Read 55897 times)
e2e4
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #192 - 10/03/07 at 06:57:05
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For the finished WCC 2007 in Mexico I'm searching for the price table - does someone know?
  
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MNb
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #191 - 10/03/07 at 02:19:29
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For the WCh-title I mean.  Tongue
  

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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #190 - 10/02/07 at 23:54:44
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MNb wrote on 10/01/07 at 21:13:37:
.... After the match I really hope there will be such a strong double round robin tournament again. Grin


Yes, there will be! It happens every year in Linares and Moriella  Wink
  

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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #189 - 10/02/07 at 22:25:31
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FIDE could perhaps a tournament with only Kramnik, Anand, Topalov and Gelfand (or someone else that would be selected via candidates matches). Each player would then play four times against the others. So, it would be a 12 rounds tournament and we would finally know who is really the best Lips Sealed
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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MNb
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #188 - 10/02/07 at 21:58:38
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 10/02/07 at 04:44:55:
The system is so confusing that more than 1/8 avid fans here thought that Topalov should have been invited to this tournament.  If you thought that a player who knew he would be ineligible if he lost to Kramnik as long ago as 2005 was worthy to play in 2007, then there must be mass confusion.  Huh Something as clear as that caused problems here.

Now, we have many postings asking what is going to happen next and what will happen to Topalov, even though it's all been spelled out.  Don't shoot the messenger!  The system has obviously confused many fans of the game!  


Ah, now I get your point. Yes, it is still beyond me why Topalov did not play in Mexico City. But I don't think that has something to do with the system in itself. He should be invited next WCh tournament, just like Anand and Kramnik, no matter who wins. With five other topplayers we will have a great tournament again, for the third time in a few years. That is not complicated, is it?
  

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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #187 - 10/02/07 at 09:28:42
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As I understand the (confused) history the recent tournament was originally going to be a true WC tournament with no match directly after it. In this case Kramnik had to participate and there was some kind of case for making Topalov wait a little.

The match tradition however then (sensibly) got reinstated with Kramnik being guaranteed a match to defend/regain the title (basically the same thing now they're using quick play tie breaks). At this stage Kramnik's participation in the tournament ceased to make much sense - especially since he had a real incentive to not win it!
(after last time I doubt he'd be in a hurry to play Topalov again even if he might expect to be able to win.).

So replacing him with Topalov, and formally letting Kramnik keep his title until the match, would have made a lot of sense - but I seem to remember reading somewhere that the tournament sponsors were (reasonably!) rather unhappy with it's status being downgraded? 

That would at least make a little sense of recent events, if not the plans with the world cup & Topalov..... At least we should get a rather good match out of it all, without any of the nonsense attending the last one Smiley
  
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #186 - 10/02/07 at 06:42:47
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To make my position a bit more clear:

I think it is unfair that the winner of the World Cup has to play Topalov first, to gain the right to challenge Anand. The Fide should realize two wrongs dont make one right. Even tough I am a fan of Topalov, I think it is wrong to grant him the privillege, to take away the rights of the winner of the World Cup.

When the Fide decided to change the rules anyway by granting Kramnik extra rights, they might have considered to include Topalov in the Mexico-tournament, even though he had no right to play there.
  
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #185 - 10/02/07 at 06:17:13
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 10/02/07 at 04:44:55:
The system is so confusing that more than 1/8 avid fans here thought that Topalov should have been invited to this tournament.  If you thought that a player who knew he would be ineligible if he lost to Kramnik as long ago as 2005 was worthy to play in 2007, then there must be mass confusion.  Huh Something as clear as that caused problems here.

Now, we have many postings asking what is going to happen next and what will happen to Topalov, even though it's all been spelled out.  Don't shoot the messenger!  The system has obviously confused many fans of the game!  

Oh I didnt think the rules allowed it. I just happen to think that not having Topalov devalues the tournament a little. A bit like a world cup without Germany or Argentina.

@ Micawber, 
Thanks that makes it quite clear.
  

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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #184 - 10/02/07 at 04:44:55
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The system is so confusing that more than 1/8 avid fans here thought that Topalov should have been invited to this tournament.  If you thought that a player who knew he would be ineligible if he lost to Kramnik as long ago as 2005 was worthy to play in 2007, then there must be mass confusion.  Huh Something as clear as that caused problems here.

Now, we have many postings asking what is going to happen next and what will happen to Topalov, even though it's all been spelled out.  Don't shoot the messenger!  The system has obviously confused many fans of the game!
  
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #183 - 10/01/07 at 21:13:37
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As I wrote before, I am quite happy with a format that includes both tournament and match play. I think Anand is an undisputed WCh now, but has to prove that he can maintain the title against the best match player around: Kramnik. After the match I really hope there will be such a strong double round robin tournament again.
The only disadvantage I can see, is that we will not see long reigns like Kasparov's anymore. Then again I have no doubt, that WCh's like Botvinnik, Karpov and Kasparov would also have won tournaments like this.

S_F wrote: "The current system is so confusing"
Huh? Why are draughts fans not confused then? Draughts has had a format like this for decades. Or maybe chess players are less intelligent?  Grin
  

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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #182 - 10/01/07 at 18:22:18
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I think we all have to understand that in the interest of unification, many complimises had to be made. Is the current siutation ideal? Of course not. But it is a lot better than the ridiculous schism of the last decade. It would have been impossible to get all stakeholders on board in a solution that would have pleased all parties.  This is what happens in the real world. Problems get solved between parties with competing interests only through trade offs. Utopian solutions never work.
  

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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #181 - 10/01/07 at 15:36:38
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On the follow-up:

I heard that the winner of the Anand-Kramnik match will face a challenger to be determined as follows:

The winner of the World Cup (a knock-out tournament to be played in december) will face
Topolav in a match. The winner of this match is the next challenger for the title,
and will face the winner of the Anand-Kramnik match.
Although I am a fan of Topalov, this seems an outrageous procedure if true.

As a matter of fact, the same goes for Kramnik's right to a return match.
He well knew the rules, when he signed to play reunion match. With the help of the Fide
he succeeded ducking Topalov's challings under the rules that where in place till july or august this year,
and on top of that he suddenly had the first right for a revanche match (apparsntly without obligation to put up a prize fund). I find this slightly immoral from the man who denied Kasparov a revanche match, after having got to challenge Garry after being knocked out of the qualification cycle.

Finally I am perfectly satisfied with Anand as the new world champion. He won this title in a strong field, showing hardly any weaknesses. In order to prepare against Kramnik, perhaps he should consider strengthening his seconds-team. 
Perhaps Shirov would be motivated... Smiley
  
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #180 - 10/01/07 at 15:35:49
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First of all, 

I do not in any way mean to denigrate Anand's fantastic accomplishment!  He was the FIDE's highest rated player going into the tournament and he increased his FIDE rating while winning the most prestigious tournament around!


Once again, Congratulations to Vishy Anand!  I consider him the 15th World Champion after Kramnik. 


I look forward to the match between Kramnik and Anand, but I too don't understand why it is necessary.  If the World Championship tournament determines the World Championship, what on earth is this match going to do?  If it was a World Championship Candidates tournament, as Zurich 1953 was, then Topalov should have played and Kramnik would be waiting in the wings for the winner.  Everyone, including the fans, would understand that.  (I think.)

If Anand loses the match with Kramnik, that will make Kramnik champion again.  If that happens, then Kramnik's popularity will sink to an all-time low because he will be seen to have benefitted from a glorified Botvinnik rule. Anand become, like Smyslov and Tal before him, a World Champion who never really got to enjoy his tenure. And it won't be Kramnik's fault!

The current system is so confusing that even avid fans don't really know what is going on.  The one thing that any championship in any sport should have is transparency.  It should be transparently obvious how one becomes World Champion, and it should be free of manipulation.
  
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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #179 - 10/01/07 at 14:15:10
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thibdb13 wrote on 10/01/07 at 14:04:17:
SB means Sonneborn-Berger. It is a departage system for player having score even much (or few) points in a tournament.
From the FIDE site:
4. Tiebreak Rules using the Results of Opponents 
Note, these scores are determined in each case after the application of the rule concerning unplayed games.  
(a) The Buchholz System
The Buchholz System is the sum of the score of each of the opponents of a player
(a1) The Median Buchholz is the Buchholz reduced by the highest and the lowest score of the opponents.
(a2) The Median Buchholz 2 is the Buchholz Score reduced by the two highest and the two lowest scores of the opponents
(a3) The Buchholz Cut 1 is the Buchholz Score reduced by the lowest score of the opponents
(a4) The Buchholz Cut 2 is the Buchholz Score reduced by the two lowest scores of the opponents
(a5) The Sum of Buchholz is the sum of the Buchholz Scores of the opponents
(b) The Sonneborn-Berger System
(b1) Sonneborn-Berger for Individual Tournaments is the sum of the scores of the opponents a player has defeated and half the scores of the players he has drawn with.
(b2) Sonneborn-Berger for Team Tournaments is the score made by each opposing team multiplied by the score made against that team. Then add all these sums together.


picked up from: http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=C0611


Thanks!
  

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Re: WCC Mexico City 2007
Reply #178 - 10/01/07 at 14:04:17
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SB means Sonneborn-Berger. It is a departage system for player having score even much (or few) points in a tournament.
From the FIDE site:
4. Tiebreak Rules using the Results of Opponents 
Note, these scores are determined in each case after the application of the rule concerning unplayed games.   
(a) The Buchholz System
The Buchholz System is the sum of the score of each of the opponents of a player
(a1) The Median Buchholz is the Buchholz reduced by the highest and the lowest score of the opponents.
(a2) The Median Buchholz 2 is the Buchholz Score reduced by the two highest and the two lowest scores of the opponents
(a3) The Buchholz Cut 1 is the Buchholz Score reduced by the lowest score of the opponents
(a4) The Buchholz Cut 2 is the Buchholz Score reduced by the two lowest scores of the opponents
(a5) The Sum of Buchholz is the sum of the Buchholz Scores of the opponents
(b) The Sonneborn-Berger System
(b1) Sonneborn-Berger for Individual Tournaments is the sum of the scores of the opponents a player has defeated and half the scores of the players he has drawn with.
(b2) Sonneborn-Berger for Team Tournaments is the score made by each opposing team multiplied by the score made against that team. Then add all these sums together.


picked up from: http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=C0611
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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