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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anyone writing Play the Slav? (Read 103523 times)
ErictheRed
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #45 - 02/27/08 at 16:46:42
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I'm sorry, I suppose my last post was too trite.  I don't see any reason for Black not to answer 1.Nf3 with 1...d5 if he wants a Slav.  If 2.c4 c6 and Black's heading for the Slav.

Against 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c6, 3.e4 is the only move to make ...d5 difficult.  Of course, Black can now play 3...e5 with an English opening.  I doubt most English players would play 3.e4, though.  Also, you can't force a Slav in every game, so learning this one line of the English is not so bad!

Alternatively, 1.c4 c6 is an option for Caro players.
  
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tracke
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #44 - 02/27/08 at 13:08:37
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I hope for these additions, too (but I don´t expect them).

I don´t think that the Reti-Slav lines are objectively problematic for Black. You should look at lines like (1Nf3 d5)
(a) 2c4 c6 3b3 dxc4 4bxc4 e5
(b) 2c4 c6 3g3 dxc4
(c) 2c4 c6 3g3 Nf6 4b3 dxc4 5bxc4 e5
(d) 2c4 c6 3g3 Nf6 4Bg2 dxc4
(e) 2c4 c6 3g3 Nf6 4Bg2 Bg4 5Ne5 Be6
(f) 2g3 Bg4
I play all these lines and don´t have any problems. You must prepare it!

I´m much more concerned about 1Nf3 d5 2c4 c6 3e3 Nf6 4Nc3, when White still might want to continue with d2-d4 and Meran, Schlechter or ...a6 lines. To stay in a "real Slav repertoire" Black must play Bc8-g4xf3 lines, but White´s pawn structure is more flexible now (d2-d3).

Another move order problem is 1d4 d5 2c4 c6 3e3 (again looking for a Meran AND avoiding 3Nc3 dxc4), when a "real Slav player" must allow 3...Bf5!? 4cd cd 5Qb3 Qc7 6Nc3 e6 7e4?!, a very unclear and dangerous pawn sacrifice. Very few master games, some claim White winning, others Black winning. I´m curious about Vigus´ opinion.

Of couse the Panov is no problem at all for Black.

tracke  Smiley
  
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winawer77
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #43 - 02/27/08 at 10:48:35
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I'll be amazed if the book covers replies to 1.Nf3 and 1.c4, although it would be fantastic if it did. The only way to stay within Slav territory is to cover the lines 1.Nf3 d5 2.c4 c6 3.b3/g3 and 1.c4 c6. 

In the first case we get a Reti-Slav setup which is more problematic for Black than it looks, especially if White avoids b3 lines and plays in the Nigel Davies lines suggested in The Dynamic Reti.

After 1.c4 c6 we have transposed to a Panov/2.c4 Caro-Kann - this might be a problem for those who don't play 1.e4 c6 as Black (ie me), but as its only one line, its no great concession to learn it. Its certainly better than learning 1.c4 e5 or 1.c4 c5.
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #42 - 02/27/08 at 06:33:16
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After 1 c4 c6, white can play 2 e4, transposing the game to the Caro-Kann. I don't expect this book to cover this. However, it would't be that hard for this book to include the Slav as a response to the Reti Opening. 1 Nf3 d5 2 c4 c6 (or 1 c4 c6 2 Nf3 d5) and then the mainline is 3 g3 Nf6 4 Bg2 dxc4.
  
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J-dog
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #41 - 02/27/08 at 06:23:55
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ErictheRed wrote on 02/27/08 at 05:30:10:
Anything particularly wrong with 1...Nf6, 2...c6, and 3...d5??


This move order gives white the opportunity to play a system with an early Bf4:

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c6 3.Bf4 d5 4.e3 Bf5 5.Nc3/Nf3.  I'm not sure of the merits of this system but I wouldn't mind playing it for White.

Kramnik tried it (and won) in the 2005 Russian ch Superfinal vs. Volkov, but Volkov deviated on move 3 with 3...Qb6.

  
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kylemeister
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #40 - 02/27/08 at 05:42:02
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Well, I doubt most Blacks would want to face 1. c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 c6 3. e4.

I presume most Slav players would meet 1. Nf3 with 1...d5 (or, okay, 1...Nf6) and 1. c4 with 1...c6.
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #39 - 02/27/08 at 05:30:10
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Anything particularly wrong with 1...Nf6, 2...c6, and 3...d5??
  
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Anonymous
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #38 - 02/27/08 at 02:40:21
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Does this book give any ideas on how Slav players should meet 1 c4 or 1 Nf3?
  
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winawer77
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #37 - 02/26/08 at 12:34:16
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I agree with the last post. This book is on the traditional 'pure' Slav lines, so I rather think that, after 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3, transposing to a ...a6 variation or a Meran does not fit in with the approach that James is going for. Basically, there are plenty of other sources if you wish to transpose to these variations.

The other move in this position, of course, is the 4...g6 Schlecter variation (which is classified as a King's Indian / Grunfeld D70). Indeed, I would like to see some analysis on this much underrated line, but instead 3...dxc4 is the choice, and I'm sure its a good one.

I'm looking forward to this book! Smiley

  
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #36 - 01/29/08 at 20:43:48
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I've played 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 dxc4 as black several times, without getting poor positions. I can't remember the lines given in Burgess' book as being that terrible for black.

3...Nf6 4.e3 e6 avoids the Bg5 lines in the semi-slav. I can't see it avoiding any lines in the Meran, though. 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 e6 5.Nf3 is the Meran. 

One can add the Meran, Chebanenko or the Schlechter to the dxc4 slav repertoire for variety or to avoid certain move order problems. A book called "Play The Slav" should certainly focus on 3...dxc4, IMO.
  

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ghenghisclown
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #35 - 01/29/08 at 04:17:58
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Quote:
Also, while I think White can maintain an edge against 3.Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 g6 (what I know as the Schlecter Slav), I don't really think it's as bad for Black as most of the books say.


I agree with that.

  

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ErictheRed
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #34 - 01/29/08 at 02:18:37
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Why don't you guys wait to see what James gives on 3...dxc4 before you just dismiss it out of hand.  Maybe he's got some interesting new ideas?!?   

Before Morozevich came along, any book that gave 6...Nbd7 instead of the Bishop-sac line would have been met with the same scepticism, but look at how things are now.  Maybe 3...dxc4 is set for a comeback.

Also, while I think White can maintain an edge against 3.Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 g6 (what I know as the Schlecter Slav), I don't really think it's as bad for Black as most of the books say.
  
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ghenghisclown
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #33 - 01/29/08 at 01:54:14
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Thanks Bibs, but the positions don't suit my fancy after 3...dxc4. Also, Black's results are not great. Black's results are a whole lot better when he transposes into the Gurevich line by playing e6 and then a6, as a bunch of really great players do. 

This takes advantage of White's e3, skipping Bg5 and a ton of theory, while also avoiding the Mainlines of the Meran (I guess, I'm kind of new to all this Slav stuff). If Vigus wasn't afraid to go slightly off the main Slav-road, he could have offered this without taking up too many pages.
  

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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #32 - 01/29/08 at 01:43:03
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agree that if there's ever a good time to transpose to Chebanenko, 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. e3 a6 must be it. 

@bibs: Not sure about other lingos, only read chess books in english. Anyway, always had an impression that the Slav is one of the more "secretive" openings, in the sense that authors and professionals tend to keep more secrets to themselves compared to other openings. Hope Vigus spills all the beans....

Some sources worth considering:
Rogozenko in recent CBM118 survey on 7... Nb6, quite upbeat on Black's prospects. 
Tactics in the Chess Opening 4, this had some interesting slav games, though not much you can't find elsewhere in say Informator/Chesspub.
  
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Re: Anyone writing Play the Slav?
Reply #31 - 01/28/08 at 20:12:04
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Understand the decsion not to cover the Morozevich linme 7...Qc7 because the theory would be out of date very quickly. That being said even a summary of current theory would be of great interest. I am worried that after 7.. Nb6 the position is pretty dry.
  
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