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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) what does a slav player play against 1.c4? (Read 19702 times)
Antillian
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #35 - 09/16/07 at 00:15:52
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If this book is as good as his book on the Pirc, many more will be tempted to take up the Slav:

http://www.amazon.com/Play-Slav-James-Vigus/dp/1857445570/ref=sr_1_12/105-556381...

  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #34 - 09/15/07 at 20:09:53
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Inn2, 

I'm with you!  I don't mind "boring" equality as Black.  I have the distinct impression that Topnotch would rather defend an interesting but inferior line to a boringly equal line!

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Remember tho, as John Watson has been keen to point out, trading off one pawn does not, in and of itself, mean that the game is drawn.  I like Black's scoring chances from the Slav Exchange.
  
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lnn2
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #33 - 09/15/07 at 05:49:24
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hmmm, if all Whites play the exchange, i would have thought the Slav will definitely become the most popular defence to 1. d4. How else can you get equality by move 3?
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #32 - 09/15/07 at 03:45:55
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Alleluia!
  
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TopNotch
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #31 - 09/14/07 at 16:44:40
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I can't wait for this worldwide Slav infatuation to pass.

Maybe if all whites started playing the exchange variation it would help speed up this process.

Can I get an alleluia.

Toppy Smiley
  
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #30 - 09/14/07 at 15:39:29
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Hello, 

Autually I do play 1c4 Nf6 because on the UK chess scene, just about everyone plays the "Dynamic English" rep with 2.g3. Then the typical slav set-up is as sound and active as anything, with the bonus the book recommends a dubuous looking pawn sac. (Although Watson likes this sort of thing too.) If white does play 2.Nc3 would either (i) risk the lines you mention, (ii) maybe give 1. c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 c6 3.e4 e5 a punt, or play (iii) 2..e5 when it can be quite useful for black that Nc3 has been played.

Bye John S
  
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cyronix
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #29 - 09/14/07 at 11:09:46
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ah, sorry 8. e6 seems to be strong now, I guess 7. ... e6 could be playable for a semislav player otherwise, probably better just the most played variation, 4. ... d4 5.exf6 dxc3 6.bxc3 gxf6
  
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cyronix
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #28 - 09/14/07 at 11:00:58
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I found a more promising way for the slav player to counter 1.c4,
not having to fear the very drawish Qa4+ variation so much, and going into a normal panov-attack.
1.c4 Nf6, now white's only chance to prevent a slav is 2.Nc3, on all other moves black can play 2. ... c6, white cannot play 3.e4 and d5 is unstoppable.
So 1.c4 Nf6 2. Nc3 c6, only 3.e4 can stop the slav, and now 3. ... d5, after 4. exd5 cxd5 5. cxd5 Nxd5 we get into a normal panov where white cannot hang to his pawn with Qa4+, because black already recaptured it with his knight.
The only other way white can play is 4. e5 and now 4. ... Nfd7 (other ways to continue are 4. d4 and Nfd7) and now 5.d4 dxc 6. Bxc4 Nb6 7. Bb3 Bf5, this is a position with chances on both sides I think.



  
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nyoke
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #27 - 09/13/07 at 07:02:28
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The transposition is not that direct : black can take on e4 in stead of c4on the 4th move, and that's what I would do... (but Smyslovfan won't let me)
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #26 - 09/12/07 at 21:57:26
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MNb, I don't particularly like your 3.Nc3.  I prefer either 3.cd ed! 4.e5 or perhaps even an immediate 3.e5.  Yes, I know that the Marshall is a dangerous weapon, but I also like to grab space when it's offered.
  
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cyronix
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #25 - 09/12/07 at 15:12:59
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I have decided not to play the slav at all, I will return to the nimzo, but I will not play QID or Catalan anymore after Nf3 or g3, instead I will play Benoni. 
I think these 3 openings form a very good unity (sicilian taimanov, nimzo/benoni, symmetrical),
so symmetrical is for me Smiley.

The semislav is all in all maybe a bit too solid to me, and a bit too unbalanced (some lines dry, others ultrasharp), also I do not want to have to fear the exchange. 
But I respect the opening, it is totally sound, but if white choses so a bit too dry, also in the semislav you have to know variations until move 30 in the botwinnik ... I do not think it is quite the right thing to play in open tournaments, especially against lower rated players, for super gm's playing many openings and their own kind it is probably better suited.

MnB: Of course, white is still better in the symmetrical, but I do not have additionally have to concentrate my forces to regain a pawn, time which my opponent will use to have a better piece coordination, and so he still has the iniative after I regained the pawn, and the longer the game goes on, the more pieces are exchanged and reaching the end it becomes harder and harder to get an advantage.
of course I can still win, but you should look for some games of gm's in this Qa4+ line, almost no wins for black in this line.
  
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MNb
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #24 - 09/12/07 at 13:16:49
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As far as I can see 1.c4 c6 2.e4 e6 3.d4 d5 4.Nc3 directly transposes to the Marshall Gambit. This moveorder can be preferred if Black wants to avoid stuff like 1.c4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nf3 c6 4.e3 evt. playing the queen's knight to d2.
  
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nyoke
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #23 - 09/12/07 at 12:45:23
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Doesn't Karpovs (fairly) recent book on the Panik-Botwinnow Attack dedicate a chapter to the lines 1. c4, c6 2. e4, ...  ? Iirc from a review it should be quite extensive (with the odd 2...e6 proven to be feasible).
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #22 - 09/12/07 at 04:23:28
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Sorry Smyslov_Fan; I wasn't upset.  But I was answering the original question, which had to do with getting a Semi-Slav, not a Slav (of course, you can get to a Semi-Slav with a Slav move order, etc...).  Sorry for the misunderstanding regarding the QGD/Semi-Slav; I thought you meant that White could force Black to play a QGD that was NOT part of the Semi-Slav complex, which he cannot.
  
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MNb
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Re: what does a slav player play against 1.c4?
Reply #21 - 09/12/07 at 01:31:41
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Quote:
I found a very nasty line in the panov,
1.c4 c6 2.e4 d5 3.exd5 cxd5 4.cxd5 Nf6 6.Qa4+ Nbd7 7.Bc4 followed by d3
and white holds to his pawn, very very hard to get an advantage in this position with black.

I think I will stay with the symmetrical, I saw you can also play c4 c5 Nc3 Nf6 (instead of Nc6),
which is quite likely to get into an eagle with b6 or if opponent plays early g3 a Queen's Pawn Game with e6.


Maybe it helps if you take a look at Vaisman-Roos, FRAchT 1989. The game went 5.Qa4+ Nbd7 6.Nc3 g6 7.Bc4 Bg7 8.d3 a6 9.Nf3 0-0 10.Qa3 b6 11.0-0 Bb7 12.Re1 Re8 13.Bg5 b5 14.Bb3 Nb6 and with very normal moves Black got a good position.
Of course it is very very hard to get an advantage in this line. So it is after say 1.c4 c5 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Nf3 evt. 4.d4. The consensus since 1500 or so is that White is the one playing for an advantage ....
You should not give up an entire variation that soon because of one sideline.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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