Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Greatest Opening Ideas (Read 36862 times)
Markovich
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 6099
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Joined: 09/17/04
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #23 - 10/03/07 at 15:31:16
Post Tools
Quote:
Greetings my fellow chessfriends!

I am currently conducting some research for my newest book. I already gathered most of the material but imagined that it would not hurt to hear a few other opinions as well.

So my question is: In your personal opinion, what should be considered to be one of the greatest opening ideas ever?



The Boleslavsky Sicilian; the Nimzoindian Defense; Alekhine's Defense; the Marshall Gambit versus the Spanish.   

Edit: Looking up at the whole thread, I now see that I'm not the first to have mentioned any of these, not even the Boleslavsky.  Anyway, those are my votes.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #22 - 10/03/07 at 13:20:09
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 10/03/07 at 02:15:18:
I have thought of this, but the problem is that this anti-gambit idea is not really Lasker's.
I know of course, that 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.0-0 d6 7.d4 Bb6 is called Lasker's Defence. The sequence 8.dxe5 dxe5 9.Qb3 Qf6 is known since Morphy's days. Lasker's untested contribution was 9.Qxd8 Nxd8 10.Nxe5 Nf6, but even that does not say much. Pillsbury's 10...Be6 is at least as good. To make things worse, Charousek's 7...Bd7 is probably superior to 7...Bb6. Finally Lasker had nothing to do with 6.d4 d6 nor 6.d4 exd4 7.0-0 Nge7. To summarize: Lasker's contribution to put the Evans out of business was restricted to a disputable innovation in a sideline of a variation, that might not be best for neither Black nor White, based on an idea that was not his own but Pillsbury's. And all this already was known before Lasker wrote his famous book. (Source: Botterill, Open Gambits 1985).
Lasker's 9...d5 10.Ba3 dxc4 is more important, but came in a time that only Steinitz was foolhardy enough to play the Greco Gambit 7.Nc3. Between Greco and Steinitz there is only one Harrwitz game. Not really hot theory.
It is not that I want to tear down Lasker's reputation, maybe the strongest player of all time. Still the concept of returning the gambit pawn for positional gains was also known before Lasker was born. See Rosanes-Anderssen, Breslau 1863: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 and Riemann-Anderssen, Breslau 1876: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Qh4+ 4.Kf1 d5 5.Bxd5 Nf6. Lasker was just the first to write it down. For this he deserves eternal gratitude from patzers like us, but no, not one of the greatest opening ideas.

You're prolly right, but he was the first to really take the defense to a gambit to a new level. He faced and beat the likes of Chigorin, Blackburn and Steinitz (and numerous others) with all their gambits and tricky lines.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Q
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 22
Joined: 06/01/06
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #21 - 10/03/07 at 13:02:14
Post Tools
Yakov Murey 's 1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. d4 Nxe4 4. Bd3 Nc6!? was a shocking new idea although it wasn't really an improvement over the existing theory.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thibdb13
God Member
*****
Offline


Tal was the best

Posts: 974
Location: Mechelen
Joined: 01/25/07
Gender: Male
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #20 - 10/03/07 at 07:27:06
Post Tools
JEH wrote on 10/02/07 at 18:10:34:
Some opening discoveries can open up whole new tracts of opening theory as they can turn an evaluation of main variation on its head. e.g. in the Pirc c5 Austrian, the now "well known" forced draw line, one probably baulked at by amatuers, really opened the door for this system.

Yes this one (Austrian attack with c5 but without the forced drawing line) is great  Cheesy
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #19 - 10/03/07 at 05:06:03
Post Tools
The ascendancy of the incredibly complex Semi-Slav Botvinnik System may be the hallmark of two generations of concrete theorists.  Botvinnik, who first assayed the line, found interesting ways to break with the traditional prejudices of how to play the opening.

This generation has returned to the Botvinnik armed with computerized analysis and still plumb its depths.  Forgive the Lord of the Rings reference, but this is rather like dwarfs plumbing the depths of Khazad-Dum and awakening ancient monsters because they dug too deep.

The positions that arise from the Botvinnik are just far too complex for me to even begin to understand, and I watch in awe as the best players in the world casually spelunk into caverns where Queens are worth less than Bishops yet games are won or lost by the mis-timing of a pawn push.  These innovations are beyond my ken.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10777
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #18 - 10/03/07 at 02:15:18
Post Tools
I have thought of this, but the problem is that this anti-gambit idea is not really Lasker's.
I know of course, that 4.b4 Bxb4 5.c3 Ba5 6.0-0 d6 7.d4 Bb6 is called Lasker's Defence. The sequence 8.dxe5 dxe5 9.Qb3 Qf6 is known since Morphy's days. Lasker's untested contribution was 9.Qxd8 Nxd8 10.Nxe5 Nf6, but even that does not say much. Pillsbury's 10...Be6 is at least as good. To make things worse, Charousek's 7...Bd7 is probably superior to 7...Bb6. Finally Lasker had nothing to do with 6.d4 d6 nor 6.d4 exd4 7.0-0 Nge7. To summarize: Lasker's contribution to put the Evans out of business was restricted to a disputable innovation in a sideline of a variation, that might not be best for neither Black nor White, based on an idea that was not his own but Pillsbury's. And all this already was known before Lasker wrote his famous book. (Source: Botterill, Open Gambits 1985).
Lasker's 9...d5 10.Ba3 dxc4 is more important, but came in a time that only Steinitz was foolhardy enough to play the Greco Gambit 7.Nc3. Between Greco and Steinitz there is only one Harrwitz game. Not really hot theory.
It is not that I want to tear down Lasker's reputation, maybe the strongest player of all time. Still the concept of returning the gambit pawn for positional gains was also known before Lasker was born. See Rosanes-Anderssen, Breslau 1863: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Nf3 g5 4.h4 g4 5.Ne5 Nf6 6.Bc4 d5 and Riemann-Anderssen, Breslau 1876: 1.e4 e5 2.f4 exf4 3.Bc4 Qh4+ 4.Kf1 d5 5.Bxd5 Nf6. Lasker was just the first to write it down. For this he deserves eternal gratitude from patzers like us, but no, not one of the greatest opening ideas.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
woofwoof
God Member
*****
Offline


chess is like life

Posts: 929
Location: Singapore
Joined: 07/04/05
Gender: Male
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #17 - 10/03/07 at 01:45:39
Post Tools
How abt the Boleslavsky Sicilian? Without that idea, there wouldnt be any Najdorf/Opocensky 5...a6.

Or the work of Boleslavsky & Bronstein to develop the KID into its present form??
  

"I don't make mistakes. I make prophecies which immediately turn out to be wrong." - Murray Walker
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #16 - 10/03/07 at 01:13:53
Post Tools
MNb wrote on 10/02/07 at 21:52:45:
Rubinstein's and Schlechter's king's fianchetto against the Tarrasch. This opening has never fully recovered from this blow. The great thing about it, is that it not a strong single move, but a whole new concept.
Another great idea is Pachman's and Keres' idea to play 6.Bg5 and 7.f4 against the Najdorf. This has kept the strongest players of the world busy for almost four decades and still has not disappeared.
Finally we should not forget Sämisch, who came up with Be3, Qd2 and f3 against the fianchetto defences. Quite influencial, I would say.

If you want a real concept, take Lasker's anti-gambit openings. He basically put the Evans, Greco and whatever open gambit out of business. Not just for a few years, but until now. He took the most dangerous lines and showed how to defend. 
Dont be fooled btw, whatever lines current gambiteers are focusing on are not the lines of Lasker. He refuted the more promising lines, so they are focusing on others.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Smyslov_Fan
God Member
Correspondence fan
*****
Offline


Progress depends on the
unreasonable man. ~GBS

Posts: 6902
Joined: 06/15/05
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #15 - 10/03/07 at 00:11:41
Post Tools
This is so obvious that it may not have been mentioned:

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5!! 

Deserves mention.

The next move, 3...a6!! also deserves a special mention!

The Marshall Gambit of the Ruy Lopez, followed by the Breyer Defense also deserve consideration.

1.e4 Nf6!? is almost worth considering among the greatest opening innovations of all time.

The Garry Gambit in the Sicilian is a bit more esoteric.  Going for the even more baroque, Bronstein's Queen sac line the KID Saemisch is still amazing.

Heck, 1.e4 c5 is sheer brilliance!

The longevity of the Nimzo-Indian speaks to its candidacy as well, but we take so many of these innovations for granted now that I wonder how such entries would look in a book on great innovations.

I hope these help.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10777
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #14 - 10/02/07 at 21:52:45
Post Tools
Rubinstein's and Schlechter's king's fianchetto against the Tarrasch. This opening has never fully recovered from this blow. The great thing about it, is that it not a strong single move, but a whole new concept.
Another great idea is Pachman's and Keres' idea to play 6.Bg5 and 7.f4 against the Najdorf. This has kept the strongest players of the world busy for almost four decades and still has not disappeared.
Finally we should not forget Sämisch, who came up with Be3, Qd2 and f3 against the fianchetto defences. Quite influencial, I would say.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
dfan
God Member
*****
Offline


"When you see a bad move,
look for a better one"

Posts: 766
Location: Boston
Joined: 10/04/05
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #13 - 10/02/07 at 18:43:29
Post Tools
I'll second the Benko.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JEH
God Member
*****
Offline


"Football is like Chess,
only without the dice."

Posts: 1456
Location: Reading
Joined: 09/22/05
Gender: Male
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #12 - 10/02/07 at 18:10:34
Post Tools
Some opening discoveries can open up whole new tracts of opening theory as they can turn an evaluation of main variation on its head. e.g. in the Pirc c5 Austrian, the now "well known" forced draw line, one probably baulked at by amatuers, really opened the door for this system.
  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
thibdb13
God Member
*****
Offline


Tal was the best

Posts: 974
Location: Mechelen
Joined: 01/25/07
Gender: Male
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #11 - 10/02/07 at 13:59:06
Post Tools
Quote:
Willempie wrote on 10/02/07 at 09:09:28:
Do you mean like a novelty or more in the vain of a new concept?


That's a good question. In general I would think it should be ideas that had a greater historical impact; be it innovative new concepts (which would became popular for at least a certain period of time, preferably till today), the improvement of already existing opening systems (especially those reviving "forgotten" systems) or novelties refuting previously popular opening systems.

Then I like the Dutch Leningrad: it binds an old idea with (in the time) modern principles - the king's side fianchetto and it was also the result of laboratorium work by Russian masters.
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Antillian
God Member
*****
Offline


Brilliance without dazzle!

Posts: 1757
Joined: 01/05/03
Gender: Male
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #10 - 10/02/07 at 13:02:42
Post Tools
Here are a few that come to my mind

-I think the Hedgehog - the whole idea that Black can adopt what must have seemed like a very  passive setup back then and yet his position is full of such latent dynamism.

-The ressurection of the Berlin would be another one.

-The exchange Ruy Lopez that Fischer honed into a White weapon.

-I think the concept of the Bf4 QGD with opposite side castling. With White's weakened Q-Side, it must have seen crazy at the time.

-Or going way back, just the idea of the hypermoderns that you did not have to actually occupy the centre was revolutionary in its day.

  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Greatest Opening Ideas
Reply #9 - 10/02/07 at 11:49:35
Post Tools
It is hard to beat Keres' g4 in the schevy. 
Though the Benko with the endgame a pawn down being better for black ( Shocked) is also a nice discovery.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 ... 4 5 [6] 7 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo