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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Time trouble! (Read 22217 times)
chk
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #35 - 11/05/07 at 11:24:07
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Though I play blitz on a regular basis, I'm not really a fan of using it for training purposes. I mostly use it to relax and clear my head (i.e. it's like watching TV for me). Anyway, I wanted to share another similar experience here:
- A couple of weeks ago I played 2 rapid games (20'+10'') in a tournament. I started well and when my clock was at about 5', I got nervous and completely blew the positions (both times). My blitz experience didn't help a bit as I was unable to make the 'switch' in my head.
- Yesterday I played an important OTB game which involved lots of manouevring and deep thinking from both sides. Though the position was equal, near the end I overpressed and started to lose ground, while simultaneously ended up with 7' on my clock (my opponent had 20' left!). I then woke up and said to myself that I won't panic like in those rapid games, managed to make the 'switch' in my head and ultimately held the game.

My point: Try first to find the real reasons for your problem. You said you got nervous too while approaching time-trouble. Maybe you are experiencing a problem that has more to do with psychology than training (like myself). What can improve your psychology I don't know. Could be blitz if it makes you feel 'quicker', could be better time management (i.e. side-stepping the problem itself), could be encouraging yourself (like I did) when things start to get out of hand, etc.  Wink
  

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Willempie
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #34 - 11/05/07 at 11:23:09
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Meat wrote on 11/05/07 at 10:06:51:
Indeed there were decisive tactics in the position. But it was not absolutely necessary to embark into them. There were ways to play for a solid positional edge, but of course I didn't want to give away my attack. So I tried to calculate everything.
You are right, 9 mins should be enough time, but I guess I was afraid to provoke a tactical struggle when time trouble is just ahead, then miscalculated and played some meek and inferior moves, even though I technically had enough time to find the best continuation.

So the problem doesn't exactly begin with the actual time trouble for me, I starts as soon as I begin to smell time trouble.

Sounds very much like you could use the same courses about time management and decision making Wink
Making decisions when you are standing well but are under some sort of pressure is hard to train for chesswise, so in that respect a detour to management training can help.

Also in the situation you described it is almost always the best way to go for your 1st instinct. Not only is it usually a good move, but even when not your opponent is not likely to find a refutation...
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Meat
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #33 - 11/05/07 at 10:06:51
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Quote:
Meat, you are contradicting yourself a bit. If you have a crushing attack, you should not look for favourable simplifications, but for decisive tactics. You have spend 9 minutes for three moves, which should be sufficient to calculate those tactics. As I see it, there were two possibilities:
1. the decisive tactics were not there, so you misjudged the position at move 30. Here Eric's advice applies.
2. the decisive tactics were there, but you could not find them. In that case a moderate form of Stigma's advice applies: no bullet games, but five minutes blitz, to train calculating under time pressure.


Indeed there were decisive tactics in the position. But it was not absolutely necessary to embark into them. There were ways to play for a solid positional edge, but of course I didn't want to give away my attack. So I tried to calculate everything.
You are right, 9 mins should be enough time, but I guess I was afraid to provoke a tactical struggle when time trouble is just ahead, then miscalculated and played some meek and inferior moves, even though I technically had enough time to find the best continuation.

So the problem doesn't exactly begin with the actual time trouble for me, I starts as soon as I begin to smell time trouble.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #32 - 11/05/07 at 03:21:53
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Now that most tournaments allow for at least a 5 second delay practicing pushing wood in bullet chess doesn't make sense.

I suggest instead playing blitz (at least 3 0) or even better, playing 15-5 chess games online.  Five seconds is plenty of time to make reasonable moves in a clearly winning endgame.  After you've played through a few games, go back and analyse the endgames that you reached and see how to improve play for both sides.  

This way, you will be studying endgames that matter to you because they actually occurred in your games.  Make sure that you study key exchanges that were made and why each exchange happened.  Once you've done that, play through the most interesting positions against your computer.  

This is serious work, and it will probably result in your playing only a few games a day and studying much more.  But this is virtually guaranteed to improve your overall game and your time trouble at the same time!
  
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Stigma
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #31 - 11/04/07 at 23:04:03
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I fully agree that playing thousands of bullet games just with the rating in mind (as many do) is a waste of time. But as a time-trouble addict, around the same time I started playing a lot of bullet my focus in those stressful otb time troubles (and my results) improved. I personally think there was a connection. After a year or so I realised that bullet was not helping me improve anymore, and I cut down on it, happy with the training effect I had achieved.

About blitz and bullet not giving you time to think and plan:
This is of course true, but to my mind this is exactly what makes it valuable as a training tool! After all a big part of playing strength comes from absorbed and unconsciously recognized patterns ("chunks" in the scientific terminology), which then form the starting point for planning and calculation. By storing and analyzing one's blitz games, noting when mistakes occured and the position worsened, one can get some insight into which patterns are lacking and should be "strengthened". As an example, I noticed that in blitz games I repeatedly made the error of underestimating the value of an active king in the endgame, even as compensation for material. This is very useful information for finding training exercises! Similarly, one can pinpoint tactical errors that recur, and discover that one should work on for example "the overworked piece" or "the weakness of the back rank" or whatever. Finally blitz is useful for quickly gaining experience with an opening one is learing.

Of course, all this presupposes a) that one is conscious of blitz/bullet being used for a purpose, not for its own sake, and b) that blitz should never be the only kind of training (or play) one engages in.

Edit: I suppose the debate of blitz versus bullet as time-trouble-training depends on just how extreme one's time troubles are. I for one am not unfamiliar with having to make 10-15 moves in a minute, when focus, swift reaction and avoiding blunders is everything, so bullet made sense Smiley
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Gerry1970
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #30 - 11/04/07 at 22:13:24
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Hello:

Have been tormented by time trouble over the years, often in winning positions against lower-rated players.

Been out of OTB chess for years but planning to get back soon. So unfortunately I don't know yet if my training program is working. But here it is; I am studying all facets of the game plus playing 25m games on the Internet. I have never been into Blitz as it's too fast for me to be able to think of a plan, etc.

25m is short also but I seem to be able to play within the control. The hope of course is that this will speed up my play over the longer OTB controls. Unfortunately I have not tested it yet but it makes more sense to me that playing Blitz. I assume playing Bullet is just for competitive reasons, iow as people compete in anything. Cannot see how it would be beneficial to chess itself.

Take care,

Gerry
  
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #29 - 11/04/07 at 22:03:24
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Meat, you are contradicting yourself a bit. If you have a crushing attack, you should not look for favourable simplifications, but for decisive tactics. You have spend 9 minutes for three moves, which should be sufficient to calculate those tactics. As I see it, there were two possibilities:
1. the decisive tactics were not there, so you misjudged the position at move 30. Here Eric's advice applies.
2. the decisive tactics were there, but you could not find them. In that case a moderate form of Stigma's advice applies: no bullet games, but five minutes blitz, to train calculating under time pressure.
  

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Meat
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #28 - 11/04/07 at 19:33:45
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Eric, what you say is consistent with what I read in a book once. It said, that games between strong players contain a lot more intermediate (or shuffle) moves that those between weaker ones. Not all of them are played to avoid time trouble, but I'm sure that's a welcome side effect.

Still, I find it pretty difficult to judge when I must act immediately and when I can make little moves to improve my position bit by bit. When I'm ready to play a typical pawn break for example I usually play it right away, instead of doing some more shuffling first. The problem is that my opponent usually can improve too, and I have to evaluate something like "Do I gain more from 25.Kh1 than he does from his best move?"

Anyway, I'll try to implement this in practise, thanks!
  
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ErictheRed
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #27 - 11/04/07 at 18:48:05
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Meat: I wouldn't try bullet games personally; I think they're a total waste of time.  I'd recommend a different approach: learn to shuffle wood.

If you truly have a crushing positional advantage, in most cases you can play a la Capablanca or Petrosian or Karpov and make a couple of rook moves (or maybe slight pawn moves) that don't really alter the position at all and help you get closer to the time control.  Then after the time control you can look for a win.

Think of that famous Fischer-Spassky game where Fischer played 1.c4 and the game became a very beautiful Tartakower QGD.  Fischer made about 4 or 5 moves that emphasized his advantage without really changing the nature of the position.  In fact, I think he made 3 rook moves to put the rook on a square that it could have gone to in 1.  Maybe this was partly psychological, but I bet it was also partly to give himself more time to think.

A very strong player (I don't remember who) said that the art of maneuvering your pieces without really changing the position at all was a very important skill, and the mark of a great player.
  
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Meat
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #26 - 11/04/07 at 15:50:56
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Nope, never tried that.
I used to think they are not only a waste of time but also possibly harmful for my chess, as bullet is more of a skill and defies deep thinking and planning.
Maybe I should try and play more blitz games, but right now I can't bring myself to believe bullet will help me in longer games. I don't play much 5 min blitz right now, and I'm not very good at it (compared to classical chess). 

  
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Stigma
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #25 - 11/04/07 at 15:30:53
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Meat, have you tried using bullet games (internet or otb) to practice making reasonable decisions under strong time pressure? I used to think of ICCs 1-minute games as just a meaningless waste of time, until I started using them as special training. Now I still get into a lot of time troubles, but I am far mor likely to keep my cool and not throw the game away. I know several writers (Kotov? Tisdall?) have mentioned how skills in blitz and time trouble are not that related, but for me it helped. Just a thought.
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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Meat
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #24 - 11/04/07 at 14:27:00
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I had a horrible time trouble experience today:

I was playing white in a club game against a lower rated opponent. So I chose the QG Exchange and obtained a good position with little pressure and no counter chances for my opponent after the opening. But I needed a lot of time to get some more concrete advantage, and maybe I spent to much time on less important moves. I had a crushing attack by move 30, whilst his position was still hopelessly passive.
At that point I had about 10 min left to reach move 40. That got me a little worried, but not too much, as the position was completely winning. Then somthing strange happened: Since there were no favorable simplifications I had to invest most of my remaining time in the next 3 moves, and indeed I missed several chances to finish the game quickly. Instead I played terribly inferior moves and had move 33 was down to 1 min or so and suddenly facing some counterplay. In the subsequent time trouble I completly blew the game and barely reached move 40 after some bad exchanges that gave me a pawn endgame that is probably lost. Luckily, my opponent apparently got confused my the sudden change of events and let the win slip some moves later.

So the strange thing is that already being close to time trouble made me play terrible. And it became worse with just about every move I made. Does anybody have similar experiences? Most likely it's a psychological problem, but what can I do against it?
Similar things have already happened to me a few times, actually I'm well known at my club for blowing completely winning positions in time trouble. This stuff indeed happens more often when I have an advantage, maybe that's part of the probelm...
  
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #23 - 10/30/07 at 18:57:17
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I always leave the board after I moved to free my mind,
sitting all the time at the board I get exhausted quite fast,
sometimes I get into timetrouble, sometimes not,
but it is not because of leaving the board, that i get into timetrouble,
you really have to concentrate good and calculate effective when to move, 
and not getting lazy, and calculate the same variation over and over again ...
it is also dependable from the 'will' I think ...

but of course if you are unfamiliar with the position, you naturally need longer time,
to get a feeling for it ...
  
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #22 - 10/30/07 at 17:05:19
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My compulsion to rise is ADHD related.

Edit: Oh, and I can't stand it when my opponent takes 10 minutes only to play what was OBVIOUSLY the best move 10 minutes earlier.
  
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Re: Time trouble!
Reply #21 - 10/30/07 at 16:55:42
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JonHecht wrote on 10/30/07 at 16:41:55:
My problem is a highly unusual one. I am extremely impatient, and generally only use about 20-30 minutes for a game that is 3 hours each... (total after 40 move mark). What ends up happening is that I get an advantage then blunder because I move too quickly... I have tried everything to slow down, I already walk around the hall between moves, just because I can't stand to sit there when it isn't my turn.


As you no doubt know, the usual advice is that when it's not your turn to move, you should study the "features of the position."  What I often do is scan the board and dream up all sorts of funny possibilities for both sides' pieces.  These weird ideas sometimes turn out to be not so weird.

I wonder if your compulsion to rise is stress-related.
  

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