ChessPub Forum - Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish)

MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10778 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #24 - 01/29/08 at 20:34:26	Post Tools	Print Post
	Matemax wrote on 01/29/08 at 07:56:58: Please refute my analysis, my thoughts about chess, my evaluation of position ... - but please dont tell me what to post - this is human respect. I may feel censored - well not now, cause I am a sunny person Alas I am not that sunny after reading this, as you seem to accuse me of showing a lack of human respect. That was not my intention at all; neither it was to tell you what to post or what not. I only gave my honest opinion on your activity and also an explanation why with my evaluation of two positions. If you still want to go on analysing this position, how could I prevent it? Your reaction makes me feel sorry. Friends again?

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3192 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #23 - 01/29/08 at 10:58:41	Post Tools	Print Post
	I had quick run through the lines and they almost all seem very convincing to me, I particularly liked the ...g5 variation where White parts with 3 pieces - this would have made a very pretty game! I tend to agree with MNb, though, 15...Ne5 looks like the best chance, Black has to get the queens off. In the resulting position White has a pawn more, two powerful bishops and a lead in development, but his pawn structure is a complete mess. Offhand I would say he has better chances of winning here than in the line I gave in my update so 15 Bc4 appears to be an improvement. If 14...Nd7 is no good then the 9...Bc5 line is probably refuted.


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Matemax God Member Offline Chesspub gives you strength! Posts: 1302 Joined: 11/04/07	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #22 - 01/29/08 at 07:56:58	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: I am sorry, but would you say in English just what the frig your point is? You supply no evaluations, y'see? Dear Markovich - did you read my "introduction": Quote: With the following variations I try to close this "emergency exit" - so the evaluation is clear: "white wins" - and no more has to be added.... Quote: Matemax, no pun intended, but I don't think it's very fruitful to analyse the position after 14...Nd7. Hmm ... Perhaps I should have sent an e-mail directly to Tony cause it was intended as a reaction on his latest update (and I thought it is interesting for some of us) - there 14...Nd7 is given as a possible last (?) escape for black. The other variations are all mentioned in the analysed game and at the beginning of the thread. And I want to add a chess point as well: Quote: I don't like 14...Nd7 15.Bc4 Ne5! 16.Bxe5 Qxf3 17.gxf3 Bf5 and White will find it hard to convert his extra pawn. Furthermore IMO white has the clearly better position - it could be even enought to win without the extra pawn Please refute my analysis, my thoughts about chess, my evaluation of position ... - but please dont tell me what to post - this is human respect. I may feel censored - well not now, cause I am a sunny person


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10778 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #21 - 01/29/08 at 02:41:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	I don't like 14...Nd7 15.Bc4 Ne5! 16.Bxe5 Qxf3 17.gxf3 Bf5 and White will find it hard to convert his extra pawn. Fortunately White also can try 15.Rfe1 and 15.Nc7. Only LG-fanatics will try to defend this as Black. Matemax, no pun intended, but I don't think it's very fruitful to analyse the position after 14...Nd7. White has sacced a piece. Black's king is vulnerable on f8, he still has four pieces on the back row. Is that really what (s)he wants when playing ...f5 ? At the other hand I wish that I always would get such promising positions when I sac a piece.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #20 - 01/29/08 at 01:04:57	Post Tools	Print Post
	Matemax wrote on 01/28/08 at 19:10:06: Etc., etc. I am sorry, but would you say in English just what the frig your point is? You supply no evaluations, y'see?

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3192 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #19 - 01/28/08 at 20:03:39	Post Tools	Print Post
	Actually, I can't take the credit for finding this move, it was Alejandro's analysis, but I couldn't refute it myself. I will have a good look at your analysis as soon as I persuade my computer to stop giving me a blue wall of death every time I use an analysis engine!


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Matemax

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Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish)
Reply #18 - 01/28/08 at 19:10:06

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In the January update Tony featured the Latvian gambit variation of this thread.

As far as I understood the analysis the only way to escape should be 14...Nd7. With the following variations I try to close this "emergency exit" and keep the fire burning for the Latvian - 15.Bc4:

Here are my suggestion for the variations (I cut early - please give your comps some seconds at the end

- they will find the rest....)

a) 15...Ne7 16.Nxe7 Qxc4 17.Bd6+ Ke8 18.Rfe1 Kd8 19.Nf5 Rf8 20.Bxf8 Bxf8 (20. ... Nxf8 21.Nxg7 Ng6 22.Re4 Qxc2 23.Ne6+ Bxe6 24.Rxe6) 21.Rad1 Qf7 22.Qh3

b) 15...g5 16.Rfe1 gxf4 (16. ... Ne7 17.Nc7 Qxc4 18.Bxg5+ Kg8 19.Bxe7; 16. ... h5 17.Qc3) 17.Nxf4 Qxc4 18.Ne6+

c) 15...Ndf6 16.Nxf6 Qxc4 (16. ... Qxf6 17.Rad1 Be7 (17. ... g5 18.Qd5 Qxf4 19.Qxc5+ Kg7 20.Rd6 Nf6 21.Rd4 Ne4 22.Qe7+ Kh6 23.Rxe4) 18.Rfe1 Bf5 19.Bxg8 Rxg8 20.Rxe7 Kxe7 21.Qxb7+) 17.Nd7+ Ke8 18.Nxc5 Qxc5 19.Rfe1+ Ne7 20.Qg3

d) 15...Ngf6 16.Rae1

e) 15...Ne5 16.Bxe5 Qxf3 17.gxf3 Bh3 18.Rfe1

Anyone from the Latvian firebrigade to safe the day Wink

?

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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10778 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #17 - 12/25/07 at 22:02:06	Post Tools	Print Post
	Thanks, I probably would have found it myself if I not had been too lazy.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Sacapawn Full Member Offline International Master Posts: 119 Location: Stockholm Joined: 05/27/05 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #16 - 12/25/07 at 20:32:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Well, my instinct also tells me that 12...Nxe7 13.Nxe7 Kxe7 cannot be right, but what after 14.Re1+ Kf8 ? 15.Re4 seems devastating; 15...Bf5 16.Rf4 g6 17.Bxf5 gxf5 18.Qf3 or 15...Nd7 16.Bc4 Qg6 17.Re6 Quote: I maintain that Black should deviate as early as on move 2. I agree, but maybe Tony will reveal in his January update if there is a way for Black to get a playable position in the Latvian (sorry AMM, neither I think that the line with 5...c6 you gave is very convincing, I think Black is just a pawn down without compensation).


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10778 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #15 - 12/25/07 at 01:46:14	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, my instinct also tells me that 12...Nxe7 13.Nxe7 Kxe7 cannot be right, but what after 14.Re1+ Kf8 ? I maintain that Black should deviate as early as on move 2.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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AMM Full Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 110 Location: Barcelona - Spain Joined: 11/08/07 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #14 - 12/25/07 at 01:16:34	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb, In 12..Ne7 13.Nxe7 Qxe7 14.Re1 Be6 15.Qh5+ Kf8 16.Qf3+ and Rxe6 with a clear adventage. I don't understand 13..Kxe7?? so 14.Re1+ Be6 15.Bc4 +- ( maybe you confused 13..Kxe7 with 13..Qxe7 ) In the line 12..Ne7 13.Bc4 Be6 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Bxe6 Qxe6 and now perhaps 16.Bg5 instead of 16.Re1 but logically simple 14.Re1 as is pointed is definitive. I continue thinking 5..c6!? is neccesary, or at least return again to 5..Qg6 instead of 5..Qf7


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10778 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #13 - 12/24/07 at 22:57:15	Post Tools	Print Post
	Now it's my turn to ask: is there a direct win after 12...Ne7 13.Nxe7 Kxe7 14.Re1+ Be6 15.Qe2 Be6 ? Not that I would want to play this as Black.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3192 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #12 - 12/24/07 at 11:14:47	Post Tools	Print Post
	Sacapawn wrote on 12/24/07 at 08:05:54: 12...Ne7 13.Nxe7 Qxe7 14.Re1 looks good for White. Yes, true, 14...Bxf2+ 15 Kxf2 0-0+ looks forced, when 16 Kg1 Qxb4 looks pretty miserable for Black - he is behind in development and White has two massive bishops.


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Sacapawn Full Member Offline International Master Posts: 119 Location: Stockholm Joined: 05/27/05 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #11 - 12/24/07 at 08:05:54	Post Tools	Print Post
	Quote: Can Black survive 9.0-0 Bc5 10.b4 Bb6 11.Ncxd5 cxd5 12.Nxd5 ? As 12...Be6 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Re1 looks very good for White, only Ne7 13.Bc4 (13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Re1 0-0) Be6 remains. But 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Bxe6 Qxe6 16.Re1 Qf6 17.Qh5+ Qf7 18.Qh4 is quite my idea of a nice evening - as White. Quote: 18...Nd7 planning ...Nf8 or ...Nf6 seems reasonable. If White has a clear win here I don't see it. 12...Ne7 13.Nxe7 Qxe7 14.Re1 looks good for White.


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GMTonyKosten YaBB Administrator Offline Mr Dynamic? Posts: 3192 Location: Clermont-Ferrand Joined: 12/19/02 Gender:	Re: Latvian Gambit refuted (in Spanish) Reply #10 - 12/24/07 at 00:59:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	MNb wrote on 12/23/07 at 20:31:07: Can Black survive 9.0-0 Bc5 10.b4 Bb6 11.Ncxd5 cxd5 12.Nxd5 ? As 12...Be6 13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Re1 looks very good for White, only Ne7 13.Bc4 (13.Nxb6 axb6 14.Re1 0-0) Be6 remains. But 14.Nxb6 axb6 15.Bxe6 Qxe6 16.Re1 Qf6 17.Qh5+ Qf7 18.Qh4 is quite my idea of a nice evening - as White. 18...Nd7 planning ...Nf8 or ...Nf6 seems reasonable. If White has a clear win here I don't see it. Anyway, Alejandro has sent me lots of analysis and I will definitely look at all this for the January update - my December one is already finished and waiting to go online.


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