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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Leaving the Dutch Defense (Read 11550 times)
belaji
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #19 - 02/21/08 at 00:50:55
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I have always been intrigued with e6 Benonis where Black delays the capture exd5 until White declares himself. Examples:

[Event "Open"][Site "Pula CRO"][Date "2001.??.??"][Round "6"][White "Gombac, J"][Black "Mikac, M"][Result "0-1"][WhiteElo "2230"][BlackElo "2406"][ECO "B27"]
1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 g6 3. d4 Bg7 4. d5 d6 5. c4 Nf6 6. Nc3 O-O 7. h3 e6 8. Bd3 Na6 9. O-O e5 10. Bg5 h6 11. Be3 Nh7 12. Qd2 f5 13. Bxh6 f4 14. Bxg7 Kxg7 15. Be2 Ng5 16. Qd1 Rh8 17. Nh2 Bxh3 18. gxh3 Nxh3+ 19. Kg2 f3+ 20. Nxf3 Nf4+ 21. Kg1 Rh3 22. Qb3 Rxf3 23. Qxb7+ Nc7 24. Qxc7+ Qxc7 25. Bxf3 Qd7 26. Ne2 Nxe2+ 27. Bxe2 Qh3 0-1

[Event "TCh-YUG Final"][Site "Herceg Novi YUG"][Date "2001.??.??"][Round "1.1"][White "Antic, D"][Black "Velimirovic, D"][Result "0-1"][WhiteElo "2485"][BlackElo "2484"][ECO "A43"]
1. d4 c5 2. d5 Nf6 3. c4 g6 4. Nc3 Bg7 5. e4 d6 6. Nf3 O-O 7. Bd3 e5 8. h3 Nh5 9. g3 Nd7 10. Bg5 f6 11. Bd2 a6 12. Qe2 Rf7 13. Nh4 Qf8 14. Ng2 Bh6 15. Ne3 Kh8 16. O-O-O Nb6 17. Kb1 Bd7 18. b3 Rb8 19. Be1 Na8 20. Nf5 Nf4 21. gxf4 gxf5 22. fxe5 fxe5 23. exf5 Nc7 24. Ne4 Bxf5 25. Bc3 Bxe4 26. Qxe4 b5 27. Ka1 Qe7 28. f3 Qf6 29. Rhg1 bxc4 30. bxc4 Qxf3 31. Qh4 Be3 32. Rgf1 Bd4 33. Bxd4 Qxd3 0-1
  
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FM Dikkie
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #18 - 02/20/08 at 20:34:13
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Black_Widow wrote on 12/11/07 at 22:44:10:
I play now 1 c4, and I really am glad if black plays 1 .. e5.


Then you probably play the sicilian with black...   Wink
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #17 - 12/13/07 at 07:25:17
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As Feeric or as f.... cold?
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Black_Widow
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #16 - 12/12/07 at 23:17:37
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thibdb13 wrote on 12/12/07 at 06:56:05:
Black_Widow wrote on 12/11/07 at 22:38:44:
thibdb13 wrote on 12/11/07 at 07:30:09:
Black_Widow wrote on 12/10/07 at 21:03:02:
Good question, I would also like to see an answer on.

Shall we found a club? Cheesy

We struggle with many of the same things!

Shall we call it the "F-club"?

The F always does it well, especially now the F is in the month!
  
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Willempie
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #15 - 12/12/07 at 12:18:53
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thibdb13 wrote on 12/12/07 at 06:59:17:
Viking wrote on 12/11/07 at 21:08:19:
I have been toying with the Benoni myself. I also came to the same conclusion to head for the hedgehog against the anti-benoni's. The problem is that when white just plays solid chess I always wish I were white...

So then I go back to my beloved dutch systems....

I am afraid I will come to the same conclusion. I have also tried the hedgehog on the internet for some days and I am not so happy with the resulting middlegames. I thought it could a sort of Pirc on the Q-side but this is far from true. (for example: you cannot create counterplay with f6 and g5, it would be suicidal)  

I dont see why you would want to play a hedgehog, but that's me. In any case 1..c5 wont commit you to that. If you intend to play the Benoni you also immediately have a repertoire for people who go 1.d4 and 2.c4 but dont play d5 as that is a symmetrical English as well.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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thibdb13
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #14 - 12/12/07 at 06:59:17
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Viking wrote on 12/11/07 at 21:08:19:
I have been toying with the Benoni myself. I also came to the same conclusion to head for the hedgehog against the anti-benoni's. The problem is that when white just plays solid chess I always wish I were white...

So then I go back to my beloved dutch systems....

I am afraid I will come to the same conclusion. I have also tried the hedgehog on the internet for some days and I am not so happy with the resulting middlegames. I thought it could a sort of Pirc on the Q-side but this is far from true. (for example: you cannot create counterplay with f6 and g5, it would be suicidal)  
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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thibdb13
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #13 - 12/12/07 at 06:56:05
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Black_Widow wrote on 12/11/07 at 22:38:44:
thibdb13 wrote on 12/11/07 at 07:30:09:
Black_Widow wrote on 12/10/07 at 21:03:02:
Good question, I would also like to see an answer on.

Shall we found a club? Cheesy

We struggle with many of the same things!

Shall we call it the "F-club"?
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Black_Widow
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #12 - 12/11/07 at 22:44:10
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I play now 1 c4, and I really am glad if black plays 1 .. e5. The least I like are the 1 .. c5 systems. So maybe that is an idea. But is there a way for white to move order out black into for instance Queens Gambit? At least I know, white can avoid the hedgehog, with 1 c4 and 2 g3.
  
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Black_Widow
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #11 - 12/11/07 at 22:38:44
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thibdb13 wrote on 12/11/07 at 07:30:09:
Black_Widow wrote on 12/10/07 at 21:03:02:
Good question, I would also like to see an answer on.

Shall we found a club? Cheesy

We struggle with many of the same things!
  
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Viking
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #10 - 12/11/07 at 21:08:19
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I have been toying with the Benoni myself. I also came to the same conclusion to head for the hedgehog against the anti-benoni's. The problem is that when white just plays solid chess I always wish I were white...

So then I go back to my beloved dutch systems....
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #9 - 12/11/07 at 18:43:26
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parisestmagique wrote on 12/11/07 at 17:24:02:
I depends also if you are a 1.e4 player or a 1.d4 player.
If you play 1.e4 with White why not the reversed Sicilian ?
1.c4 e5 ! = Alekhine. By the way why dont you play another Dutch, if you play the Leningrad, you can try the Antoshin or the Stone wall.

I am now a f4-player but I used to be a Q-side player in the past (I played the English long ago and after this d4).
I have also played the Stonewall in the past but it does not fit my style it is too passive for me. 
In fact, I remarked that I understand a lot better and faster Benoni positions than the ones arising from the Dutch. The problem is that I get very frustrated when someone avoids the classical Benoni setup...
Now I have a few week to think about this all (my next game with black is planned in January) and I'd like to see if it has sense to go back to the Benoni (learning it will not take too much time but the anti-benoni's are not my cup of tea and I do not feel comfortable in Tarrasch-like positions...)
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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parisestmagique
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #8 - 12/11/07 at 17:24:02
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I depends also if you are a 1.e4 player or a 1.d4 player.
If you play 1.e4 with White why not the reversed Sicilian ?
1.c4 e5 ! = Alekhine. By the way why dont you play another Dutch, if you play the Leningrad, you can try the Antoshin or the Stone wall.
  
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thibdb13
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #7 - 12/11/07 at 10:03:58
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Willempie wrote on 12/11/07 at 09:24:25:
Why not 1..c5? Works equally well against 1.Nf3, though you might encounter the occasional weirdo who enters a sicilian (chances are he doesnt know anything about it or plays the closed).

Also worthwile to check out Palliser's "beating unusual openings" book. He recommends 1..c5 against the English and gives 3(!) options against 1.Nf3.

Not a bad idea! Thanks
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #6 - 12/11/07 at 09:24:25
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Why not 1..c5? Works equally well against 1.Nf3, though you might encounter the occasional weirdo who enters a sicilian (chances are he doesnt know anything about it or plays the closed).

Also worthwile to check out Palliser's "beating unusual openings" book. He recommends 1..c5 against the English and gives 3(!) options against 1.Nf3.
  
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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thibdb13
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Re: Leaving the Dutch Defense
Reply #5 - 12/11/07 at 07:30:09
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Black_Widow wrote on 12/10/07 at 21:03:02:
Good question, I would also like to see an answer on.

Shall we found a club? Cheesy
  
Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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