CheckMate wrote on 02/25/08 at 11:10:38:


This theme with Na5, Da4+ and b4 (with or without a White d4-d5) can occur in other lines as well. One example is 1. d4 d5 2. c4 Nc6 3. Nc3 dxc4 4. Nf3 Nf6 5. Bg5 h6 6. Bxf6 exf6 7. e3 Na5 8. Da4+ c6 9 b4.

I Black plays 3.- dxc4 he should surely be familiar with this theme and know how to handle it. I don't think that White's chances are generally better, but of course it always depends upon the specific position.

Besides from that I think that realistically you will probably meet these lines very rarely at the club level. Players below 2000 are mostly not familiar with details of Chigorin theory and mostly choose more "mainstream" approaches, and even if they know the idea, they may avoid it considering they know they are playing on your theory home ground. Until now I have myself never played the Black side of this (not the White either).

And as already stated by realpolitik, white can generally avoid all this with 3.- Nf6, which is actually what Wisnewski recommends in his play 1...Nc6!.

It's easy to avoid boring lines if your name is Lev Zilbermints

On a more serious note, I agree that the Chigorin is an excellent practical weapon. I have tried it in bullet games on the internet, but I found that against IMs and GMs my lack of knowledge played a major role in getting beaten quite badly. Still, I probably would have avoided some of these results had I known the opening theory in detail. 

I just played an interesting game in the Chigorin against Beetlejuice.  I knew in advance that he likes this opening and had prepared for him.

The game is provided below:

[Opening "Queen's pawn game, Chigorin variation"]
[ECO "D02"]
[Time "14:07:01"]
[TimeControl "2700+45"]

1. Nf3 {0:45:39} d5 {0:45:41} 2. d4 {0:46:23} Nc6 {0:46:20} 3. c4 {0:47:05}
Bg4 {0:46:52} 4. Nc3 {0:47:03} e6 {0:47:03} 5. Bf4 {0:47:24} Bb4 {0:45:18}
6. e3 {0:46:42} Nge7 {0:44:31} 7. h3 {0:44:22} Bxf3 {0:43:23} 8. Qxf3
{0:44:36} Ng6 {0:42:52} 9. Bg3 {0:44:24} O-O {0:41:34} 10. Rc1 {0:42:10} Re8
{0:40:51} 11. cxd5 {0:41:28} exd5 {0:40:26} 12. Be2 {0:42:07} Nce7 {0:33:15}
13. O-O {0:37:26} c6 {0:33:04} 14. Bd3 {0:37:07} Bd6 {0:30:30} 15. h4!{0:19:43} Beetlejuice and I both thought that White has an edge here. Bxg3 {0:16:25} 16. Qxg3 {0:19:16} Qb8 !?{0:11:07} 17. Qxb8 {0:16:29}
Raxb8 {0:11:52} 18. g3 {0:17:13} Rbd8 {0:10:52} 19. b4 {0:17:38} a6
{0:09:38} 20. a4 {0:18:01} Nc8 {0:08:07} 21. b5 {0:13:11} cxb5 {0:07:35} 22.
axb5 {0:13:49} a5 {0:08:17} 23. Na4 {0:10:34} b6 {0:07:28} 24. Bxg6!
{0:10:13} hxg6 {0:07:39} 25. Rc6 {0:10:42} Re6 {0:06:36} 26. Rfc1 {0:11:23}
Na7 {0:07:08} 27. Rxe6 {0:10:38} fxe6 {0:07:53} 28. Nxb6 {0:11:19} Nxb5
{0:08:28} 29. Rc5 {0:11:57} Nd6 {0:04:32} 30. Rxa5 {0:12:37} Kf7 {0:04:25}
31. Ra7+ {0:12:52} Kf6 {0:04:47} 32. Nd7+ {0:12:15} Kf5  33. Ne5 Kf6 34. g4  g5  35. hxg5+ 
Kxg5  36. Rxg7+ Kf6  37. Rg6+  Ke7
38. Nc6+  Kf7  39. Nxd8+  Kxg6
40. Nxe6 {Black resigns} 1-0

I was completely surprised by  6...Nge7!?/?! and expected Black to continue with f5 at some point.  Black's 8...Ng6 was a novelty, but White has been scoring extremely well in the standard lines.  I was pleased with my play and Beetlejuice fought hard.  But I felt that Black had several important improvements early on. 

My overall impression of the Chigorin is that Black has to play some extraordinary moves to gain equality.  Is it playable?  Of course, especially if your name is Morozevich.  (My own stats show that White is winning 62% of the points in Master games.  This is a huge edge for White.) Is it worth the headaches?  It gives both sides headaches, so the final decision is up to you.

In my opinion, the Chigorin is viable. Perhaps the Slav is objectively better, but that doesn't mean the Chigorin is dubious.
I've played the Slav in the past. I'm having better results and more fun with the Chigorin. 
And if players believe that the Chigorin is "inferior and bad", all the better for me 
edit: I also believe there is still lots of room for innovation and improvements for both white and black.

In will like to point out that Black must be ready to sacrifice a piece for 2 pawns and a strong Q side pawn chain in some lines. For instance:

3. Nc3 dc 4. Nf3 (!) Nf6 5. d5!? Na5 6. Qa4+ c6 7. b4 b5 8. Qxa5 Qxa5 9.ba b4 10. Nd1 cd.

Since this line is forced (and quite critical!) it must be seriously considered by all Chigorin players. Whites strategy here is to seek an opportunity to give back the sacrificed piece in exchange for Black's c and d pawns which creates a sharp open position on the board.

He certainly does - in fact, the position is basically a QGA where Black has met the rare move 3.Nc3 with the somewhat strange 3...Nc6 (this does pressure the centre but it is very commital). I think that White obtains the advantage without too much difficulty in this variation, but I don't really know the "theory" of 3.Nc3, so obviously I cannot claim that 3.Nc3 is better for White without some evidence in the form of variations. 

Then again, forums are for discussions .

Bonsai wrote on 02/21/08 at 06:39:53:


I agree with you in that the alleged refutations generally don't work (take Ward's recommendation in "Play the Queen's Gambit" for one example). However, all decent players know that the Slav (just an example) is objectively stronger, of course.

I suppose the definition of 'viable' would vary from person to person - to one person it could mean a position with counterplay; for another it could mean close to full equality, and so on. I am not arguing that the Chigorin is not viable; however, White's starting "small edge" is more significant with very best play than in very solid openings such as the Slav, Nimzo/QID, and comparatively sharper openings such as the King's Indian.

By the way, I am quite intrigued by the move 3.Nc3 against the Chigorin - how much of an advantage does White obtain after this move?