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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) How to win against the dutch leningrad (Read 11714 times)
rossia
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #15 - 03/12/08 at 14:58:45
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Don't be afraid. Every opening line has gambits which can be employed. But as knowledge is power, one is not entitled to be scared. Or I'm wrong?
  
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thibdb13
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #14 - 03/12/08 at 07:04:58
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If your actual rating is 1331 and you are really playing at 1800 you should not fear your opponents! They will strongly underestimate you, what could be very usefull when playing the Staunton gambit!
  

Yusupov once said that “The problem with the Dutch Defence is that later in many positions the best move would be ...f5-f7” but he is surely wrong.
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #13 - 03/11/08 at 20:07:01
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This offcourse depends on the rating of the players Smiley My rating is 1331 (altough i play around 1800 level)
  

'Experts vs The Sicilian' is a great book, but it is not the Bible. - TopNotch
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #12 - 03/11/08 at 19:43:47
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Staunton is not a bad weapon. However dont expect black to be surprised... Dutch players play the sidelines more often than the main variations Smiley
  
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Zatox
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #11 - 03/11/08 at 19:31:54
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If you have problems against 1...f5 maybe the staunton gambit can be a good option: 

1.d4 f5 2.e4!?
- The cool thing about is that it is only a temporary sacrifice In all variations you can get your pawn back (if you want).

1.d4 f5 2.e4 fxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5
-Also the move 4.f3 is possible altough after the strong move 4...d5! white has nothing in my opinion.

Here black has two options 4...Nc6 and 4...e6 4...d5? is not possible because of 5.Bxf6 exf6 6.Qh5+ g6 7.Qxd5 Nc6 8.Nxe4! when white is already winning. Some black players may also play the strange looking 4...e3 Against this the best is probably 5.fxe3 when 5...d5 still isnt possible. 

4...Nc6
This is the best move for black.
5.d5 Ne5 6.Qd5 Nf7 7.h4!? 
-White has some space advantage in the centre and the kingside. His d5 pawn can get weak though.

4...e6
This isn't very challenging.
5.Nxe4 Bd7 6.Bxf6 Bxf6 7.Nf3
-White has easy development for his pieces.

It may not suite every player here but some of you might like it. Smiley Especially in speed games this is a very good suprise weapon
  

'Experts vs The Sicilian' is a great book, but it is not the Bible. - TopNotch
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #10 - 03/10/08 at 18:13:47
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FightingDragon wrote on 03/10/08 at 12:59:44:
Thank you for your opinion, I think I will buy the book.  Smiley

Does Kindermann still give his d6-e5 idea against the b4-system?
There was a Bundesliga game in 2007 where he suffered badly against Dautov, though he managed to draw.
I think the lines with c6 are more promising for black, there are some games by Nijboer.

He still gives d6+e5 plans in the relevant chapter. The game Dautov-Kindermann was after the publication of the book (2005) and up to Dautov's 8.Nc3 the game followed the analysis in the book.

Interestingly all the black games of Kindermann since then feature the Slav... Maybe that means something or maybe it doesn't. Well, e.g. Nijboer still seems to play that variation with ...0-0 + ...c6 instead of Kindermann's ...d6.
  
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FightingDragon
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #9 - 03/10/08 at 12:59:44
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Thank you for your opinion, I think I will buy the book.  Smiley

Does Kindermann still give his d6-e5 idea against the b4-system?
There was a Bundesliga game in 2007 where he suffered badly against Dautov, though he managed to draw.
I think the lines with c6 are more promising for black, there are some games by Nijboer.
  
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #8 - 03/10/08 at 08:03:31
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FightingDragon wrote on 03/10/08 at 02:23:25:
I'm toying with the thought of buying the english edition of Kindermann's Leningrad book, although I posess the german one.

Is it worth it? It seems that the english edition is revised and there are additions and new analysis in many places (e.g. the Atalik-Kindermann game that was played after the german edition came out in 2002). 
Is there anybody who owns both editions?

Yes, I do.

A good number of games are the same, but a few things are considerably updated. There's the Atalki-Kindermann game, there's coverage of why 1.Nf3 f5 2.d3 is dangerous (and a recommendation to play e.g. 1.Nf3 d6), there's a new option covered versus the b3 system (the Ne4 variation in addition to the old coverage) and there's a recommended repertoire (covered in one long example game) with ...Na6 instead of ...a5 showing an idea against his main worry about Na6 in the notes. There's also updates on new games and analyses (e.g. from Valery Beim's book) in various places, mostly in the more important lines (and less often in the less popular lines). In fact I found the English edition a bit harder to digest, because there is more analysis in places that "obscures" the core ideas (but then it gives a more accurate picture...). Don't ask me though whether you need to buy it, I thought it was worthwhile for myself.
  
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #7 - 03/10/08 at 02:23:25
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I'm toying with the thought of buying the english edition of Kindermann's Leningrad book, although I posess the german one.

Is it worth it? It seems that the english edition is revised and there are additions and new analysis in many places (e.g. the Atalik-Kindermann game that was played after the german edition came out in 2002). 
Is there anybody who owns both editions?
  
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #6 - 03/09/08 at 17:51:08
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To me 9.Be3 is one of the most serious tries, there's also a very interesting game Kindermann lost as black against Atalik (but he shows some improvements in his Leningrad Dutch book).

Certainly more so than in other openings sidelines are very intersting, too, and 2.Nc3 is one of the most challenging ones (also early b4 plans also make sense). 2.Bg5 is also very interesting. However one has to consider what one woudl do if black tried to enter the mainlines via a 1...d6 or 1...g6 move order.
  
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #5 - 03/08/08 at 16:34:50
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Against the dutch i play the b4 systems. This brings play into positions black players probably won't have prepared as much as mainstream theory. Besides, i think that dutch is ok in main lines but may suffer better  in sidelines... Cheesy
I found some good ideas in the b4 systems in a post on this forum and on the chessoub database.
  
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #4 - 03/07/08 at 13:58:04
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Battleangel,

If you have a database, I recommend you pull out the games that include the relevant position and play over the ones contested between strong players, starting with the recent ones and working back.  That's what I do to try to understand the themes in given, difficult tabiyas.

As others have pointed out, chess engines even these days are quite useless for helping one to form plans.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #3 - 03/07/08 at 11:26:28
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Yes, but not the mainline Dutch Leningrad..
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #2 - 03/07/08 at 08:53:16
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Using an engine is a great way to find ideas in highly tactical situations. For instance in some rare sub variation where you have sacrificed a piece or something like that. Some insane branch of the Bg5 Najdorf comes to my mind. Maybe such positions can _only_ be aproached by an engine.
  
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Re: How to win against the dutch leningrad
Reply #1 - 03/06/08 at 19:55:23
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I'm not sure why someone would think that analyzing a mainstream opening position with an engine would be likely to help understand possible plans in such a position, much less show "how to beat" one side or the other.  But I get the impression that there are many people who do think something like that.
  
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