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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) I lost my interest after this.... (Read 193090 times)
yolocounty
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #166 - 09/27/18 at 20:11:42
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My present opinion is that this line offers White nothing after 1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Ne1 Nd7 10. Nd3 f5 11. Bd2 Nf6 12. f3 f4 13. c5 g5 14. Rc1 Ng6 15. Nb5 Rf7 16. Ba5 b6 17. cxd6 cxd6! with ...g5-g4 to follow.

I nonetheless persist because (a) many players take one of the pieces on offer (knight or bishop) or (b) play the kingside attack no better in this line than after 14. cxd6 cxd6 and "normal" play.
  
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yolocounty
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #165 - 09/27/18 at 20:06:01
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I am not attempting to resuscitate this thread, merely to add that, speaking for myself, I have been very thankful to have this thread as a reference.  I play/allow this line with both colors and I have scored well with both colors in this line largely a a result of the analysis in this thread, which is both more complete and more accurate than published analysis I have seen elsewhere.

Kudos, and thank you.
  
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NegiRefutes
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #164 - 04/13/16 at 15:04:52
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I was just interested in the line discussed here. Why did 'up and comer' post when no one had posted for two years?
  
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proustiskeen
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #163 - 04/13/16 at 14:52:13
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Negi, just out of curiousity, why did you dredge up analysis that's 4 years old?
  
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Confused_by_Theory
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #162 - 04/13/16 at 11:19:46
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Hi.

In "Kotronias on the King's Indian MDP I" (Quality chess 2015)

(1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 0-0 6.Be2 e5 7.0-0 Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Ne1 Nd7 10.Nd3 f5 11.Bd2 Nf6 12.f3 f4 13.c5 g5 14.Rc1 Ng6 15.Nb5 Rf7 16.Ba5 b6 17.cxd6 cxd6 18.Be1)

18...a6
18...g4

Are indeed both covered (see p.127).

Have a nice day.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #161 - 04/12/16 at 19:46:02
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Kotronias covers both 18...g4 and 18...a6 if I recall correctly.
  
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NegiRefutes
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #160 - 04/12/16 at 19:27:18
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proustiskeen wrote on 05/15/12 at 21:57:55:
I, too, was under the impression that Black was ok with the improvements I mentioned.  I'd be thrilled to learn that wasn't the case!


Nothing wrong with your analysis although maybe after 18. Be1 g4, 19. Qc2 deserves some attention but Black is fine there. Took be a while to figure it out though. Anybody see anything wrong with 11... fxe4? Also, does Kotronias recommend 11... fxe4 or 18... g4/18...a6?

Here is some 11... fxe4 analysis:
  
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yolocounty
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #159 - 04/14/15 at 22:40:48
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I note that both Gallagher's old book and Vigorito are willing to consider playing 15. Nb5 a6 for Black, when the consensus here was that the piece sacrifice was just good for white (not, necessarily, as good as the "other" piece sac with 15. Nb5 Rf7 16. Ba5 b6 17. cxd6 bxa5 . . .).

Any thoughts? I play the 11.Bd2 Mar del Plata as White and Black, so it is of great interest and I am not clear on White's compensation for the knight.

After 16. cxd6 axb5 17. dxc7 Qd7 Black's a8-rook can become active, so the sacrifice isn't as obviously correct?
  
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gewgaw
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #158 - 02/12/15 at 20:50:54
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@Ametanoitos,
I'd be interesting to know, if Kotronias' latest KID-books changed your assessment about this line?
  
The older, the better - over 2200 and still rising.
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yolocounty
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #157 - 02/04/15 at 19:24:15
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Jay wrote on 05/23/12 at 13:15:59:
Do either of Vigoritos' books cover the various Hungarian plans/Ne2-Ng3?  I have used this against black, but my only post-game tools are myself, Fritz12/Firebird, Easy guide to Nge2 KID (very good, but I'm certain my played variations won't be in it).  I do quite well against KID players in my class with it.  I suspect that these positions are actually the kind computers are fair/good at, but having the recent concurring opinion/analysis of strong players is always a plus.


Vigorito covers it in the second of two volumes.  I prefer his approach to Gallagher's, for what it's worth (not much, I'm 2100).

Probably should be in a separate topic though.
  
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #156 - 09/12/14 at 15:06:32
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proustiskeen wrote on 04/19/12 at 21:08:53:
I recently played a game in this line, and had prepared the heck out of it beforehand with the computer, sources, etc.  Because I was able to get so much good material from this very forum in this line, I'd like to give back.  

Special thanks to BPaulsen, who I cite in the analysis.  

Sadly I didn't play very well, but I did get 23 moves into my preparation.  At my level (1700ish) that's not too bad.  Here's hoping you find this useful!

Cliff notes version: I don't think Shankland's line holds up.  Specifically, 24...a6 and 26...Qg6 look like real improvements.



Thanks a lot. Stockfish agrees with you, once it gets to a deep enough depth Smiley.
  
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BabySnake
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #155 - 11/13/12 at 11:07:47
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Many thanks Vass, managed to find it in my library!
  
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Vass
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #154 - 11/13/12 at 07:10:35
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BabySnake wrote on 11/12/12 at 19:22:07:
Mikhail_Golubev wrote on 05/23/12 at 00:37:37:
Ametanoitos wrote on 04/20/12 at 09:22:15:

Edit: I would also like to add that Golubev's 18...Nxb4 (which is given as an alternative in the book as a footnote) has been refuted also. 19.Qb3 g4 20.Nc6!


I must have missed something, do not have time to follow all the K.I.D. developments these days. 20.Nc6 is an obvious move, was analysed a bit in Informator by Lukacs/Erdos many years ago. Seems to be too complex, also for computers, to make such definite assessments. Well, if the engine would have been able to analyse 20 moves ahead here, I would trust it more or less, probably after making some work!?


Can anybody remember in which Informator this analysis appeared?  Smiley


Inf 94/p.452

And the game is:

[Event "Magyarorszag"]
[Date "2005.??.??"]
[White "Erdos, V."]
[Black "Acs, P."]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[ECO "E99"]
[WhiteElo "2454"]
[BlackElo "2545"]
[Annotator "Lukacs,P; Erdos,V"]
[PlyCount "60"]
[EventDate "2005.??.??"]

I can post the analysis here in pgn format.
But, the problem is that I don't know if I would break any laws.. It's hard to live if not a lawyer these days..  Roll Eyes
  
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BabySnake
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #153 - 11/12/12 at 19:22:07
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Mikhail_Golubev wrote on 05/23/12 at 00:37:37:
Ametanoitos wrote on 04/20/12 at 09:22:15:

Edit: I would also like to add that Golubev's 18...Nxb4 (which is given as an alternative in the book as a footnote) has been refuted also. 19.Qb3 g4 20.Nc6!


I must have missed something, do not have time to follow all the K.I.D. developments these days. 20.Nc6 is an obvious move, was analysed a bit in Informator by Lukacs/Erdos many years ago. Seems to be too complex, also for computers, to make such definite assessments. Well, if the engine would have been able to analyse 20 moves ahead here, I would trust it more or less, probably after making some work!?


Can anybody remember in which Informator this analysis appeared?  Smiley
  
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Jay
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Re: I lost my interest after this....
Reply #152 - 05/23/12 at 13:15:59
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Do either of Vigoritos' books cover the various Hungarian plans/Ne2-Ng3?  I have used this against black, but my only post-game tools are myself, Fritz12/Firebird, Easy guide to Nge2 KID (very good, but I'm certain my played variations won't be in it).  I do quite well against KID players in my class with it.  I suspect that these positions are actually the kind computers are fair/good at, but having the recent concurring opinion/analysis of strong players is always a plus.
  
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