I'll give this thing a shot! After: 

1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 O-O 6.Be2 e5 7.O-O Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 9.Ne1 Nd7 10.Nd3 f5 11.f3 Nf6 12.Bd2 f4 13.c5 g5 14.Rc1 Ng6 15.Nb5 Rf7 16. Ba5 b6 17. cxd6 I think 17...cxd6 is definitely best. Now:

18. Bb4 and now: 

18...Bf8 19. a4 

White has other moves, for instance 19. Qa4 a6 20. Qa3 Ne8 21. Be1 Bd7 22. Nc3 g4 23. fxg4 Qg5 24. h3 h5!

19...a6 20. Na3 

20. Nc3 comes to mind, when one funny idea for Black is 20...Rg7!? 21. Nf2 Nh4 22. g3 g4!? intending 23. fxg4 h5! 24. gxh4 hxg4 with a strong attack.

20...g4! 21. Be1 g3 22. hxg3 Nh5! 23. gxf4 Ngxf4 24. g4

24. Nxf4 Nxf4 25. Rc6 Qg5 26. g4 h5 with a strong attack. 

24...Nxd3 25. Qxd3 Nf4 26. Qc2 Qg5 when Black has a strong attack. 


Now let's check out 18. Be1: 

18...a6 19. Nc3! 

19. Na3 b5! 20. Nb4 g4! 21. Nc6 Qf8 22. Nb1 g3 23. hxg3 Nh5 24. g4 Ng3 25. a4 Bf6 26. Qd2 Bh4! and Black has a strong attack. Rybka's suggestion of 22. Nb1 is maybe too slow. 

19...a5!? 20. Nb5 g4 21. Rc6 Bf8 22. Bf2 Bb7! looks okay for Black. Here's a long sample line. 23. Rc3 g3 24. hxg3 fxg3 25. Bxg3 Nh5 26. Bf2 Ngf4 27. Nxf4 Nxf4 28. Bg3 Bh6 29. Bh2 Rg7 30. g3 Qh4 31. Qe1 Qh3 32. Qf2 Nxe2+ 33. Qxe2 Ba6! 34. a4 Bf4 35. Qg2 Qh6 36. Rd1 Be3+ 37. Kh1 Bf4 38. g4 Bxb5 39. axb5 Qh4!, intending ...h5, with the initiative.

Surely there are improvements lurking everywhere, but this position seems okay for Black, at least on the superficial surface. 

Can anyone else tell I'm bored at work? 

What's the latest word in this variation?
As Ametanoitos is discussing the KID again, perhaps there is an antidote?

Perhaps I will have to defend the black side of this next weekend, I would like to hear your opinion on this variation!

Matemax wrote on 03/24/08 at 10:21:05:


Matemax,

Have a look at "King's Indian Defence - Mar Del Plata Variation" from Gligoric, page 31, where Gligoric actually gives a few game referneces to the night sac. I am not sure if 18. Bb4 is necessarily best. Gligoric, Rybka and Fritz all prefer 18. Qb3 with references to Sariyadzanov-Klimov, St. Petersburg 1997 and Biryukov-Solovyov, St. Petersburg 1999. 

Btw, Gligoric and Huzman  both recommend 17. ...Qe8 instead of 17. ... Qd7

Ametanoitos wrote on 03/18/08 at 20:29:24:


I'd agree that one of the main advantages of playing the King's Indian is that you can clobber the King's Indian when you face it yourself (which comes in quite handy when the King's Indian is one of the most popular, if not the most popular, opening below GM level). Once you start beating higher rated players who have the bravery to trot out the King's Indian against you, give it up as Black and play something else.

11. ... Nf6 is not really good I think.

11. ... Kh8 seems to be better,
followed by Nf6 and c6 or c5

Bonsai wrote on 03/18/08 at 07:01:19:


Or, as one might say, Black is lost, but he has adequate compensation.

But why on earth do you give players rated 500 points below you the chance to play Black's side of the KID main lines?

Some KID authors think that the position after 7...Nc6 8.d5 Ne7 is easier to play for Black because of his attacking chances on the kingside. However, I disagree - White has the simple plan of playing for c5, forcing some sort of concession and playing sound positional moves to exploit his advantage on the queenside. True, White will probably need to defend accurately on the kingside, but this is obviously much easier when White has already won the battle on the queenside. Whereas for Black, he has to set up his attack in the most accurate move order, since any inaccuracy will leave him in a very passive position. And if he misplays one move in the attack, then White will obtain a clear, if not winning, advantage.

Being in a KID forum, some people may claim that I am being overly pessimistic about Black's chances in the main line. I can understand why - Black often obtains the initiative on the kingside - but from personal experience, White's plans on the queenside are very simple and easy to understand, whereas Black's kingside attack must be conducted with the utmost accuracy. True, White also has to defend very accurately, but I have found that the people playing White happen to defend very accurately! I used to play the KID myself ages ago as Black, by the way.

Even though the main line seems much easier to play for White, I am not pessimistic about the KID in general. Play the 7...Na6 variation - the struggle is more strategic and positional, and Black does not have to play super-accurately to get a good position.

Conclusion: Don't scrap the King's Indian entirely. But definitely scrap the 7...Nc6 variation. Only Radjabov can get away with such a provocative move - and even he has lost to Shirov in this variation (Linares 04 and Linares 08).

17.cxd6 cxd6 gives the same position which arises after 17.cxb6 cxb6, but in the latter line Black has the option of playing 17...axb6 so White's 17.cxd6 is a superior move at least in this sense.

In games I can find after 17...cxd6 White seems to be doing well with either 18.Be1 (3 wins, 2 draws) or 18.Bb4 (2 wins, 1 draw).

For example: 18.Be1 a6 19.Nc3 h5 [19...Bd7 20.Nb4 b5 21.Nc6 Bxc6 22.dxc6 Rc8 23.a4 Rxc6 24.axb5 axb5 25.Bf2 b4 26.Qa4 Rc8 27.Qxb4 Kh8 28.Nb5 Rxc1 29.Rxc1 Bf8 30.Qb3 d5 31.Nc3 Rc7 32.exd5 Bc5 33.Bxc5 Rxc5 34.Rd1 Ne7 35.Ne4 Nxe4 36.fxe4 Nc8 37.d6 Nxd6 38.Qe6 Qb6 39.Kf1 Rc6 40.Qxe5+ Kg8 41.Qxg5+ 1–0 Pergericht (2275)-Winterstein (2235), Luxembourg 1987] 20.Nb4 Bh6 21.Na4 Rb7 22.Bf2 Nd7 23.Bxa6 Rxa6 24.Nxa6 Nc5 25.N6xc5 bxc5 26.b4 Rxb4 27.Rb1 g4 28.Rxb4 cxb4 29.Kh1 g3 30.hxg3 fxg3 31.Bxg3 Ba6 32.Rf2 Be3 33.Rc2 Nf4 34.Qe1 Bd4 35.Bh4 Qa5 36.Qg3+ Kf7 37.Qg5 Bc3 38.Qe7+ 1–0 Yuferov (2450)-Dydyshko (2415), Minsk 1978.

BTW, I think Andrew Brett's suggestion of 13...c5 looks like a logical attempt to prove that White's 13.Rc1 was just a waste of time.