Excellent analysis and insights Smyslov_Fan ! Thanks a lot.

I think you must be a strong correspondence player as you have such a nice research skills.

Interesting.  It might be noted though that (in accordance with what LeeRoth said) ECO and NCO think the course of Karpov-Yusupov was slightly better for White, and their conclusions on the relative merits of Be2 and Bd3 (with the associated difference in the deployment of White's queen) in that sort of line are pretty much the reverse of yours.  (I would have thought, albeit offhand, that White's queen has more business on the queenside.)

sssthepro wrote on 03/21/08 at 23:36:16:


There's no real difference, since Black has ways to equalize against either move.  Also, as someone else has pointed out, after ..dxc4 they come to the same thing.   

That said, 6.Be2 is sometime considered more precise because in the line 6..0-0 7.0-0 Bg4, the sequence 8.cxd5 cxd5 9.Qb3 leads to an edge for White, whereas in the comparable line with 6.Bd3 0-0 7.0-0 Bg4, the try 8.cxd5 can now be met with 8..Bxf3 equalizing.

LeeRoth

saubhikr wrote on 03/21/08 at 20:43:20:

As one of the offenders, I appologize.  I posted something in reponse to a question about the difference between 3.Nc3 and 3.Nf3 in the lines 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.(Nc3/Nf3) Nf6 4.e3 but this discussion is off topic (as ErictheRed already pointed out) and really belongs in a separate thread.  

You already posed an interesting question, and this is the one we should get back to.

Bonsai wrote on 03/21/08 at 07:44:22:

No, of course not.  4...Bf5 is only problematic in the lines where White has a knight on c3.

I made no mention of a problem with 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 which, of course, is a main line in the Slav.

When I wrote at the end of my last post:
OstapBender wrote on 03/21/08 at 06:51:41:

I was referring to the line 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 Bf5

Sorry, if this point wasn't clear in that post.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/21/08 at 06:07:23:

In the following post, Eric notes that 3.Nf3 might be less popular because it gives Black the option of playing 4...Bf5.

ErictheRed wrote on 03/18/08 at 15:41:54:

Note that 4...Bf5 is not an option (or at least not a very good one!) in the analogous position where White has played 3.Nc3 instead of 3.Nf3.  The relevant line is:

1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Qb3 

and Black has trouble dealing with the double attack on b7 and d5.  If I recall correctly, Black's main move here is now the retreat 6...Bc8.  Not very appealing. Sure White is not winning, but he's got a better than average edge out of the opening.

The difference between 3.Nf3 and 3.Nc3 is the extra pressure on d5 exerted by the Nc3.

We discussed a similar line in an earlier thread: 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Nf3 (instead of 4.e3) 4...Bf5 5.cxd5 cxd5 6.Qb3

Here's what I posted on that occasion:

OstapBender wrote on 08/23/07 at 12:54:44:


The line where White has played 4.Nf3 is probably worse for Black, but I think 4...Bf5 is a weak move in either line.

Smyslov_Fan wrote on 03/16/08 at 15:49:30:


Smyslov_Fan,

Thank you for the deeply insightful comment that completely dismisses the original poster's question.  Seriously: the original poster asked a question about a certain opening variation, and then you basically just told him not to worry about it because he shouldn't play it to begin with!   

I'm sorry you seem so insulted by my last post.  I clearly stated why this position arises after 3.Nc3 more often than after 3.Nf3.  Then, I tried to get the discussion back on topic.  The original poster's question had to do with how White could seek an advantage against the Schlecter Slav, not how best to get into the Schlecter to begin with.  And he certainly didn't deserve to have his entire question dismissed!

Anyway, my knowledge of this variation is quite limited.  I gave my suggestions for areas to look for new ideas, like 12. Bb3!? or 13.Qf4!?.  With that I'll leave, because I doubt I could contribute anything else worthwhile.

Can someone summarize to what should be played after the middlegame is reached ? I am still waiting for a clear direction here ......