Normal Topic Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1 (Read 7802 times)
Woldsman
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Re: Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
Reply #8 - 02/04/10 at 10:56:47
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An interesting cc game was played in this line recently:

S.D. Smith - P. Hewitt, CCDCCC (2009-10) 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 g6 3 Nc4 Bg7 4 e4 d6 5 Nf3 o-o 6 Be2 e5 7 o-o Nc6 8 d5 Ne7 9 Ne1 Nd7 11 f3 f5 12 Be3 f4 13 Rc1 Rf6 14 c5 Nxc5 15 b4 Na6 16 Nb5 Bd7 17 Nxa7 Rh6 18 Bb5 Nxb4 19 Qa4 Bxb5 20 Qxb5 b6 21 a3 Na2 22 Nc6 Nxc6 23 Rxc6 Rxa3 24 Nc2!? (24 Qb2 Radziewica-Al Sayed, Budapest 2001) 24..Ra5 25 Qb3 g4 26 fxg4 Rg6 27 Ra1 Qa8? 28 Rxc7 Bf8 29 g5 Rg7 30 Rxg7 1-0

The decisive error was 27..Qa8? Instead 27..Qg5! appears to keep Black in the game. Sample lines: 27..Qg5 28 h3 (28 Rc7 Nb4! 29 Qxb4 Qxg4 30 g3 fxg3 31 hxg3 Rh6) 28..h5 29 Rxc7 hxg4 30 h4 Qh5 and now:

a) 31 Bxb6 Ra8 32 Rxa2 Rxa2 33 Qxa2 Qxh4 34 Qa7 f3
b) 31 Be1 Nb4! 32 Qxb4 Rxa1 33 Nxa1 g3 34 Rc3 Rh6
c) 31 Kf1 Nb4! 32 Qxb4 Ra1+ 33 Nxa1 g3 34 Bxb6 f3

in each case Black keeps a dangerous attack.
  
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BPaulsen
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Re: Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
Reply #7 - 11/16/09 at 10:13:48
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GMGolubev wrote on 11/16/09 at 09:37:42:
Topalov-Radjabov was discussed in the October update. Not such a comfortable draw for Black I would say.  Smiley


White always had pressure, but I don't think he ever had anything that could come to fruition. Of course, that could just be my shortcomings as a player and analyst.  Smiley I'll take another look at the game.

I really want something that gives even a little += to white, hence why I'm looking so hard at Kozul's Gambit and trying to find something after 10. Nd3 f5 11. Bd2 fxe4, since I like white's chances in the more theoretical alternatives to 11...fxe4.
  

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Re: Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
Reply #6 - 11/16/09 at 09:37:42
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Topalov-Radjabov was discussed in the October update. Not such a comfortable draw for Black I would say.  Smiley
  
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Re: Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
Reply #5 - 11/16/09 at 01:05:55
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In searching for an edge for white, and trying my hardest to equalize with black, my own analysis indicates black doesn't even equalize after 13...Rf6. In fact, he ends up plainly worse, and without the typical "hope and a prayer" attack.

The critical variation is, without a doubt, 13...Ng6. From there: 14. c5 Nxc5 15. b4 Na6 16. Nb5 Rf7!

Now, 17. Nd3 would transpose to a recent game where black drew comfortably (Topalov - Radjabov, Nanjing 2009). White always had compensation, but never any concrete threats. Radjabov preferring 13...Ng6 should also send a message.

17. Nxa7 is met by 17...Nxb4, and black isn't worse provided he remembers a really cute equalizing idea, for example:

18. Qb3 Na6 19. Nxc8 Qxc8 20. a4 Bf6 21. Nd3 g4! 22. fxg4 Bh4, and black is no worse, maybe even for choice.

At this point in time the Classical KID looks really good from the black point of view. Black has equalized the Bayonet, he can avoid the theoretically problematic lines in 9. Ne1 Nd7 10. Nd3 f5 11. Bd2 with fxe4, and 9. Nd2 is well met by 9...a5 with ...Bd7 and following along the lines of Kramnik - Van Wely, Amber 2008.

It's hard to admit as someone that only plays the white side. At this point in time white's best chance would be trying to find an edge after 10. Nd3 f5 11. Bd2 fxe4, based on the information I have, or resurrecting the Bayonet after Radjabov's 12...Kh8.
  

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Re: Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
Reply #4 - 06/24/09 at 06:52:41
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 04/23/08 at 04:34:36:
I consider 13.Rc1 to be fairly toothless.  This is an old idea that was supplanted by Korchnoi-Hulak (1989 (I think)) 13.Nb5!?  The problem with 13.Nb5 is b6! So Korchnoi started playing 13.a4 instead.

13.Rc1 Rf6 14.c5 seems speculative at best.  After 14...Nc5 15.b4 Na6!? I don't think Black has any real worries.  16.Nb5 seems to be mixing up systems and just a bunch of sound and fury.  Black has numerous good lines and doesn't even have to go into the confusion of your variation. For instance, Black can play a la Karpov's recommendation with 16...b6.


Having said all that, you are probably right about 19...Nc8 being a blunder.  Gallagher was probably banking on a timely Bb5 for Black, but it never materializes.


After 16...b6 it looks like white has compensation after any number of tries (Qa4, Nd3, Qb3, a3)

In fact, I really wouldn't want black's position after 17. Qa4. I'm not seeing the way out of white playing Nxd6 followed by Bxa6. Black's Bc8 is held to the Na6, and the Na6 can't move because of Pc7.

Of course, I could easily be missing something.
« Last Edit: 06/24/09 at 15:49:31 by BPaulsen »  

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Re: Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
Reply #3 - 04/23/08 at 04:34:36
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I consider 13.Rc1 to be fairly toothless.  This is an old idea that was supplanted by Korchnoi-Hulak (1989 (I think)) 13.Nb5!?  The problem with 13.Nb5 is b6! So Korchnoi started playing 13.a4 instead.

13.Rc1 Rf6 14.c5 seems speculative at best.  After 14...Nc5 15.b4 Na6!? I don't think Black has any real worries.  16.Nb5 seems to be mixing up systems and just a bunch of sound and fury.  Black has numerous good lines and doesn't even have to go into the confusion of your variation. For instance, Black can play a la Karpov's recommendation with 16...b6.


Having said all that, you are probably right about 19...Nc8 being a blunder.  Gallagher was probably banking on a timely Bb5 for Black, but it never materializes.
  
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Re: Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
Reply #2 - 04/17/08 at 07:08:26
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TonyRo wrote on 04/02/08 at 17:08:27:
I have a question about the line:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 O-O 5. Nf3 d6 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Ne1 Nd7 10. Be3 f5 11. f3 f4 12. Bf2 g5 13. Rc1 Rf6 14. c5 Nxc5 15. b4 Na6 

My friend plays 16. Nb5 here, which Gallagher thinks is harmless (or unclear) and Golubev doesn't even mention. I played Gallagher's suggested 16...Bd7 and got away with it, but I'm wondering why the line

16...Bd7 17. Nxa7 Rg6 (Gallagher) 18. Bxa6 bxa6 19. Qc2 Nc8 (Gallagher) 20. Qxc7 is not just crushing for White? He only gives 20. Nc6, which doesn't appear to be as good after 20...Qe8. 

Junior suggests 17...Nxb4 18. Qb3 b6 19. Nb5 Na6 20. Nxc7 Nc5 21. Bxc5 Qxc7 22. Qxb6 Qxb6 23. Bxb6 Rxa2, but this ending looks much better for White here after either 24. Rc2 or 24. Bc4. 

Maybe the improvement lies on move 17, or maybe not at all, and I'll have to look at 13...Ng6. 


In the game Radziewicz-Al sayed Budapest 2001 Black played 17.. Th6 and won but Avrukh thinks that White is better after

18 Bb5 Nxb4  19. Qa4 Bxb5  20. Qxb5 b6  21. a3 Ca2  22. Cc6 Cxc6  23. Rxc6  +/- but 0-1
  

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Re: Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
Reply #1 - 04/12/08 at 22:03:36
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I once played 17...Rh6 in a game and got good attacking chances, although I later lost the game after missing a chance to break through on the kingside.
  
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Classical with 10. Be3 and 13. Rc1
04/02/08 at 17:08:27
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I have a question about the line:

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 O-O 5. Nf3 d6 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Nc6 8. d5 Ne7 9. Ne1 Nd7 10. Be3 f5 11. f3 f4 12. Bf2 g5 13. Rc1 Rf6 14. c5 Nxc5 15. b4 Na6 

My friend plays 16. Nb5 here, which Gallagher thinks is harmless (or unclear) and Golubev doesn't even mention. I played Gallagher's suggested 16...Bd7 and got away with it, but I'm wondering why the line

16...Bd7 17. Nxa7 Rg6 (Gallagher) 18. Bxa6 bxa6 19. Qc2 Nc8 (Gallagher) 20. Qxc7 is not just crushing for White? He only gives 20. Nc6, which doesn't appear to be as good after 20...Qe8. 

Junior suggests 17...Nxb4 18. Qb3 b6 19. Nb5 Na6 20. Nxc7 Nc5 21. Bxc5 Qxc7 22. Qxb6 Qxb6 23. Bxb6 Rxa2, but this ending looks much better for White here after either 24. Rc2 or 24. Bc4. 

Maybe the improvement lies on move 17, or maybe not at all, and I'll have to look at 13...Ng6. 
  
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