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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez (Read 9339 times)
BabySnake
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #12 - 01/08/13 at 13:31:26
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[quote author=46787D7D747C617874110 link=1210711210/7#7 date=1211271953][quote author=nmga link=1210711209/0#6 date=1211243336]I'm confused! You're suggesting that the line's good for [i]Black[/i], I take it? -- but with 10 cd White can force a draw!?[/quote]
No I dont think he can force a draw. I think white is slightly better after 9.Nbd2 dxc6 10.cxd4, while the other lines at most give a draw, which imo isnt good news for white. In particular because the whole Qxb2 excursion cant be punished, which I count as a moral loss. It would seem that this variation would be a sure way of punishing Qxb2, but if it doesnt even work here...

Therefore I personally wouldnt play this line, but go 4.d4 and 5.c3. 3.g6 to me is like waving a red flag, so it should be punished. Unfortunately not with the line in the line Dikkie mentions (good find btw!)[/quote]

I think in case of 4.d4 exd4 5.c3 black does well to transpose to the Cozio with 5...Nge7 6.cxd4 d5!
  
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FM Dikkie
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #11 - 05/25/08 at 20:53:29
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IM Andrew Greet wrote on 05/25/08 at 19:48:16:
FM Dikkie wrote on 05/13/08 at 20:40:09:
Andrew Greet gives in his very interesting spanish book on page 35 the line "10..Qxa1? 11.Qxh8 Kf8 12.Ng5 is obviously no good for black"

But after 12...Ba6 13.Nxh7+ Ke7 14.Qe5+ Kd8 it looks like white has no more than forcing a draw. Also the engines Rybka en Fritz see no advantage, although in the beginnning fritz "thinks" he has something.
If this is true drawish.. it looks like the given 7...Qb4+?! is a good equalising move for black!


Sorry for the delay in responding to this - I only recently noticed the thread. Perhaps I was too hasty to dismiss this line, although having looked at it in more detail I am still not convinced about Black's chances.
In the above line I think that 13.Nxh7+? may be the cuplrit, as there is no need to drive the king to the relative safety of the centre. Instead I would suggest 13.Rd1!, bringing another piece into the attack. Just look at this position - the black rook and queen are still way out of action, White is only down by one measly pawn, and his attack seems tremendously dangerous. For example, 13...Be2 is refuted by 14.Qe5! f6 15.Nxh7+ Kg7 16.Nxf6! with a decisive attack. 13...Qxa2 looks better, but here there follows 14.Nxh7+ Ke7 15.Qd4 d6 (or 15...Qe6 16.Qc5+) 16.e5! with a raging attack.

Summing up, I agree that I was a little too quick to discard this line, and a few more variations would have improved that section of the book. However, unless someone can find something wrong with the above analysis, I think the overall assessment is a valid one.


Thanks Andrew! These lines seem pretty convincing!  Smiley
  
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IM Andrew Greet
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #10 - 05/25/08 at 19:48:16
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FM Dikkie wrote on 05/13/08 at 20:40:09:
Andrew Greet gives in his very interesting spanish book on page 35 the line "10..Qxa1? 11.Qxh8 Kf8 12.Ng5 is obviously no good for black"

But after 12...Ba6 13.Nxh7+ Ke7 14.Qe5+ Kd8 it looks like white has no more than forcing a draw. Also the engines Rybka en Fritz see no advantage, although in the beginnning fritz "thinks" he has something.
If this is true drawish.. it looks like the given 7...Qb4+?! is a good equalising move for black!


Sorry for the delay in responding to this - I only recently noticed the thread. Perhaps I was too hasty to dismiss this line, although having looked at it in more detail I am still not convinced about Black's chances.
In the above line I think that 13.Nxh7+? may be the cuplrit, as there is no need to drive the king to the relative safety of the centre. Instead I would suggest 13.Rd1!, bringing another piece into the attack. Just look at this position - the black rook and queen are still way out of action, White is only down by one measly pawn, and his attack seems tremendously dangerous. For example, 13...Be2 is refuted by 14.Qe5! f6 15.Nxh7+ Kg7 16.Nxf6! with a decisive attack. 13...Qxa2 looks better, but here there follows 14.Nxh7+ Ke7 15.Qd4 d6 (or 15...Qe6 16.Qc5+) 16.e5! with a raging attack.

Summing up, I agree that I was a little too quick to discard this line, and a few more variations would have improved that section of the book. However, unless someone can find something wrong with the above analysis, I think the overall assessment is a valid one.
  
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Willempie
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #9 - 05/21/08 at 09:55:56
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[quote author=nmga link=1210711209/0#8 date=1211283779]Sorry, my mistake -- I meant that with 9 Qd4 and 10 0-0 White could force a draw, and that therefore Black couldn't be better, as I wrongly thought you were suggesting. But why do you think White is better in the 9 Nbd2 line? -- can't Black extricate his Queen via b5 and be quite solid if he takes basic care?
[/quote]
Yes, but the center is really strong, therefore I prefer white. Still I think black isnt without chances, but he has to be a bit more careful than white.
[quote]
I'll have a look at 4 d4 ed 5 c3. Smyslov was happy to play this stuff, so I wonder what he had in mind.[/quote]
It is a tricky line, but apart from dxc3 not too tricky and giving excellent play.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #8 - 05/20/08 at 11:42:59
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Sorry, my mistake -- I meant that with 9 Qd4 and 10 0-0 White could force a draw, and that therefore Black couldn't be better, as I wrongly thought you were suggesting. But why do you think White is better in the 9 Nbd2 line? -- can't Black extricate his Queen via b5 and be quite solid if he takes basic care?

I'll have a look at 4 d4 ed 5 c3. Smyslov was happy to play this stuff, so I wonder what he had in mind.
  
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #7 - 05/20/08 at 08:25:53
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[quote author=nmga link=1210711209/0#6 date=1211243336]I'm confused! You're suggesting that the line's good for [i]Black[/i], I take it? -- but with 10 cd White can force a draw!?[/quote]
No I dont think he can force a draw. I think white is slightly better after 9.Nbd2 dxc6 10.cxd4, while the other lines at most give a draw, which imo isnt good news for white. In particular because the whole Qxb2 excursion cant be punished, which I count as a moral loss. It would seem that this variation would be a sure way of punishing Qxb2, but if it doesnt even work here...

Therefore I personally wouldnt play this line, but go 4.d4 and 5.c3. 3.g6 to me is like waving a red flag, so it should be punished. Unfortunately not with the line in the line Dikkie mentions (good find btw!)
  

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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #6 - 05/20/08 at 00:28:56
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I'm confused! You're suggesting that the line's good for [i]Black[/i], I take it? -- but with 10 cd White can force a draw!?
  
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #5 - 05/18/08 at 13:06:46
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I think this line is busted. I have looked at this and imo 9.Nbd2 dxc6 10.cxd4 is better. You are a pawn down but with a great central position. It is quite telling that with the queen ransacking on b2 and a1 and a weakened kingside black still can survive.
  

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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #4 - 05/16/08 at 22:48:24
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Thank you -- I see the point.

Is this all definitely best/only sensible play for White after 7 ...Qb4? I only ask 'cos I've a suspicion that I've had this drawn position on my computer before, but failed to conclude then that 3 ...g6 was OK!
  
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #3 - 05/16/08 at 16:19:39
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[quote author=nmga link=1210711209/0#2 date=1210884149]Sorry, lost my notes -- can you remind me of the moves here?[/quote]

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 g6 4.d4 exd4 5.Bg5 Be7 6.Bxe7 Qxe7 7.Bxc6 Qb4+ (?! according to Andrew) 8.c3 Qxb2 9.Qxd4 bxc6 10.0-0
  
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #2 - 05/15/08 at 20:42:29
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Sorry, lost my notes -- can you remind me of the moves here?
  
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Re: Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
Reply #1 - 05/14/08 at 19:43:42
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Yes, you are right.
  
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FM Dikkie
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Fianchetto Defence (3..g6) in the Ruy Lopez
05/13/08 at 20:40:09
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Andrew Greet gives in his very interesting spanish book on page 35 the line "10..Qxa1? 11.Qxh8 Kf8 12.Ng5 is obviously no good for black"

But after 12...Ba6 13.Nxh7+ Ke7 14.Qe5+ Kd8 it looks like white has no more than forcing a draw. Also the engines Rybka en Fritz see no advantage, although in the beginnning fritz "thinks" he has something.
If this is true drawish.. it looks like the given 7...Qb4+?! is a good equalising move for black!
  
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