Latest Updates:
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 
Topic Tools
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Strategic repertoire choice discussion (Read 13169 times)
mihain
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 17
Joined: 05/21/08
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #18 - 05/24/08 at 02:21:39
Post Tools
I actually think I will play 1...c5 directly and to 2.d5 Nf6 and 3...b5 either if 3.Nf3 or c4, avoiding trompokski and others from move 1. Is there anything bad with this move order?

As for play against c4 as i plan it to play myself(I actually played the symetrical in the past) I will delay the study until i do my white lines as i am sure will see something i like for black during that. I will probably play my first tb in mid July after this long pause so I have a bit of time to learn and blitz it out on internet.

Thanks for all the help and
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chevalier
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 265
Joined: 04/11/08
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #17 - 05/24/08 at 01:54:58
Post Tools
Keep in mind that after 1.d4 Nf6, White can avoid the Benko in quite a few ways: 3.Nf3, transposing to a Symmetrical English; 2.Nf3, meeting 2...c5 with 3.d5 (although 3...b5 is fine for Black); and also rarer lines such as the Trompowsky and 2.Nc3.

Against 1.c4, the Symmetrical English is a good option. See "Beating Unusual Chess Openings" by Richard Palliser (January 2007).
  

Nothing has meaning or value other than the meaning and value that you give it.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mihain
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 17
Joined: 05/21/08
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #16 - 05/24/08 at 00:41:37
Post Tools
I think I just found my d4 counter after watching some more games and that is going to be the Benko(all pieces are active ). I played Benonis and Benko is not unfamiliar to me as I studied it a bit in the past. There is ample matrial to study and OTB is much harder for white under 2400 level to play it as black can't really go much wrong with it's plans. I think is good to add some spice to my strategical repertoire(and after all the pawn structure and piece play in Benko is probably the dream cooperation of a strategical player). 

I think that will be a challanging opening and will double up with the Cebacenko Slav when I will have the time to study it.


My only taks now is to find something against 1.c4 and of course study all this openings Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Chevalier
Senior Member
****
Offline



Posts: 265
Joined: 04/11/08
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #15 - 05/23/08 at 21:39:57
Post Tools
I would recommend starting with the Slav. If you are worried about the large body of theory in the Slav, then there are some shortcuts you can use to cut down on the amount of theory you need to study. For example:

3.Nc3 dc4 and 3.Nf3 dc4 (although I think the latter is objectively unsound)

3.Nf3 Nf6 4.Nc3 a6 (The Chebanenko Slav still has a lot of theory, but not as much as 4...dc4)

3.Nc3 e6 and 4...f5 is a possibility, although the Marshall Gambit (4.e4) could be a serious problem.

Also, if you are worried about the Exchange Slav, don't be - the positions are equal, but there is ample scope to outplay the opponent.
  

Nothing has meaning or value other than the meaning and value that you give it.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mihain
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 17
Joined: 05/21/08
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #14 - 05/23/08 at 13:46:27
Post Tools
I am in a really big dillema between Slav and NID/QID

Playing c6 in the Slav to defend the d5 I think is a worth tradeoff to develop the c8 bishop - i find many similarities between Slav and Caro but indeed pawn structures seem closer to NID - there is also that direct transposition to the panov with Bb4.

After watching some games I think white can make you suffer more on the NID if you play against a much stronger opponent but Slav is much more drawish if white plays for it(the exange is a perfect example - in caro is less effective as i still have the minority atack to play for)
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #13 - 05/23/08 at 13:25:33
Post Tools
mihain wrote on 05/23/08 at 13:14:06:
I just want to decide first what I will play based on my needs rather than copy a certain player just becouse there is book covering it all(I will probably buy separate books for each opening) though I guess your suggestion was to actually play those lines not just becouse they are in the book.

Both. I played this repertoire a little and it is quite positional and with a few exceptions there are not many lines where you risk getting busted in the first few moves. In particular because the lines are a good match with the CK. Pawn structures (and even direct transpositions) are quite similar in the lines of the Nimzo where white plays e3. Also the QID gives quite a similar feel to the classical Caro lines. The disadvantage of course is that the Nimzo can be avoided, so that you indeed need the QID (or Bogo or QGD) and a line against 1.c4 and 1.Nf3 as well. I have little experience with the slav for the simple reason that I dont like it (I just can't stand playing c6 so as to defend d5 and then a few moves later exchange it for that lousy c4 pawn Wink).
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mihain
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 17
Joined: 05/21/08
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #12 - 05/23/08 at 13:14:06
Post Tools
I just want to decide first what I will play based on my needs rather than copy a certain player just becouse there is book covering it all(I will probably buy separate books for each opening) though I guess your suggestion was to actually play those lines not just becouse they are in the book.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Willempie
God Member
*****
Offline


I love ChessPublishing
.com!

Posts: 4312
Location: Holland
Joined: 01/07/05
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #11 - 05/23/08 at 13:03:00
Post Tools
mihain wrote on 05/23/08 at 12:40:56:
Zatara your suggestions are great. I have played c4 g3 so I think the Kosten book is what I need for white or go for Reti. I definatelly want to play the mix of Reti, Catalan, English so learn them all when I have the chance just need to pick one of them to start with. I can add some 2 d4 later on against some black lines so at this stage my idea is for a quick repertoire to learn while flexible repertoire. 

As for black I seen more Pirc this morning and I really don't like it. Karo I already know it so I think is a good start. Acc dragon - looks like more suffering than Karo despite the supposed dymanic opening. I strongly consider to stick wth it than add later a Sicilian when I will have the time to study it. After watching some French it just looks like a bad Caro Kann Smiley - I know the opening has it's merits. 

Now my only problem seem to be the answer to d4 and c4 as my companion to caro-kann. I can only see 2 options and that's Slav(semi-slav has nothing to do with positional play imo) or the NID. I can add the Albin and Benoni if I want to diversify a bit(played them both in the past when I had to play for the win). Slav I think is easier to learn in conjunction to Caro but I am not so sure about being a positional opening. Of course the Slav and Caro are enough to play against c4 too so maybe need to go for the hedgehog if i opt for the NID against d4. 

To cut a long story short what do you think is best companion to the Caro in this case and why?

Mnb thanks for your answer but I don't think the hypo is a sound opening to play all the time in games up to GM level.

Maybe check out Khalifman's Karpov book? It is a bit dated, but has a repertoire based on the CK, Nimo (most lines are with c5 and are very CK-like or are closed), QID and 1..e5 (with Bb4 in most cases) against the English. The CK part is the weakest and there are some missing lines, but imo it is more than enough to start of with.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mihain
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 17
Joined: 05/21/08
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #10 - 05/23/08 at 12:40:56
Post Tools
Zatara your suggestions are great. I have played c4 g3 so I think the Kosten book is what I need for white or go for Reti. I definatelly want to play the mix of Reti, Catalan, English so learn them all when I have the chance just need to pick one of them to start with. I can add some 2 d4 later on against some black lines so at this stage my idea is for a quick repertoire to learn while flexible repertoire. 

As for black I seen more Pirc this morning and I really don't like it. Karo I already know it so I think is a good start. Acc dragon - looks like more suffering than Karo despite the supposed dymanic opening. I strongly consider to stick wth it than add later a Sicilian when I will have the time to study it. After watching some French it just looks like a bad Caro Kann Smiley - I know the opening has it's merits. 

Now my only problem seem to be the answer to d4 and c4 as my companion to caro-kann. I can only see 2 options and that's Slav(semi-slav has nothing to do with positional play imo) or the NID. I can add the Albin and Benoni if I want to diversify a bit(played them both in the past when I had to play for the win). Slav I think is easier to learn in conjunction to Caro but I am not so sure about being a positional opening. Of course the Slav and Caro are enough to play against c4 too so maybe need to go for the hedgehog if i opt for the NID against d4. 

To cut a long story short what do you think is best companion to the Caro in this case and why?

Mnb thanks for your answer but I don't think the hypo is a sound opening to play all the time in games up to GM level.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zatara
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 422
Location: Virginia
Joined: 02/26/08
Gender: Male
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #9 - 05/23/08 at 05:48:05
Post Tools
actually if you have no time buy the kosten book and Alburt/Dizinchasvilli book!!!  You will play as white 1.c4 and g3 to follow (with clear plans to play ect) and as black play the Nimzo and Bogo vs 1.d4 and Accelerated Dragon vs 1.e4 and versus 1.Nf3 and 1.c4 play c5!!!  after you get the kosten book and hate playing 1.c4 e5 you can Play 1.Nf3 and play like Kramnik!! When you have more time to study!!!  Actually Khalifman has written a few books on how to play like Kramnik!!!   
take care,
ZATARA
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Zatara
Senior Member
****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 422
Location: Virginia
Joined: 02/26/08
Gender: Male
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #8 - 05/23/08 at 05:40:15
Post Tools
I would recommend getting Kosten's book The Dynamic English Or Cox's excellent book Starting out: 1.d4.  you can also play the fianchetto repertoire.  Play the Fianchetto versus the KID and Gruenfeld and benoni and Catalan.  Oh versus slav play Qc2 and g3.  Follow Wojetkiewz not good speller sorry!!  he plays this way!!   
    You do sound positional.  So the KID/Pirc should be avoided.  I like the SLav/Caro for you.  However, the benoni/Nimzo with a French might be good as well.  At 2100 you should know what positions you like!?!?  Oh for things versus c4 and nf3 ect think playing Maroczy bind positions.  Look at tiviakov.  So maybe the aswer is Accelerated Dragon and slav or benoni /Nimzo or Nimzo Queens Indian!!  Follow Tiviakov as Black maybe and Wojetkiewz as white!!  you need to decide whether you like Nimzo or Slav!   
     You can also play Semi slav and Nimzo!!!  That would be awesome since you can play Semi Slav versus c4 and Nf3 (oh if you play 1.c4 c6 you need to be careful about 2.e4!!!  leading you into Caro Kahn).  So after 1.d4 nf6 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Nimzo or if 3.Nf3 or g3 you play d5 and c6!!  this is how Anand has been playing and this will give you sharp enough play I think and will definatly stand up versus GMs. or just play Semi slav!!!   Buy Vigorito's classic Play the Semi slav and Dearings book on the Nimzo(or just buy Vigorito's book), cox's book on 1.d4 and his book on what to play if people play something weird  and you are ready to play versus the best oponents!!!  {But if you like Independent thinking play the Wojtkeiz plan of Fianchetto and just study his games... (though I like the Cox book!!  you will play like a GM with this book and it definatly packs a punch but it is a lot of theory in comparison to the fianchetto rep which by the way will also stand up to GM play (the Kosten book for a middle road that is if you like to have a book to study from and don't want a lot of theory!!)}

But you have to decide out of which you like more when playing white the Fianchetto or d4 and main lines and if you like the semi slav or Nimzo.  you can also buy Divinchashvili's book with Lev Alburt Chess openings as Black explained!!  this has Nimzo and Bogo Indian and Accelerated Dragon and c5 versus 1.c4 and 1.Nf3 so it covers all you need to know as black!!!    So let me know what you think!?!?!   
take care,
ZATARA
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MNb
God Member
*****
Offline


Rudolf Spielmann forever

Posts: 10777
Location: Moengo
Joined: 01/05/04
Gender: Male
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #7 - 05/23/08 at 03:58:48
Post Tools
Did you consider 1.g3!? You surely will not get mated withing 15 moves with this one. It can lead to all kind of king's fianchetto setups, including the Catalan. One option you might find intriguing is the Hippopotamus/Utelky with colours reversed: 1.g3 e5 2.Bg2 (well, 2.c4) d5 3.d3 Nf6 4.Nd2 Nc6 5.a3 Be7 (a5 6.b3) 6.b4 0-0 7.Bb2 and 8.c4.

If Black plays copycat you can offer a Symmetrical English: 1.g3 g6 2.Bg2 Bg7 3.c4 c5 (e5) 4.Nc3 Nc6 5.Nf3 Nf6 6.0-0 0-0 7.d4.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
mihain
YaBB Newbies
*
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 17
Joined: 05/21/08
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #6 - 05/22/08 at 19:42:49
Post Tools
Thanks for all the input so far and it was of great help.

I am considering for white a mix of english, reti and catalan depending on what black plays. Does anyone see a better option than this?

As for black I am still thinking between the Pirc/KID which would be new stuff for me or go Karo/and against 1.d4 NID/Benoni or Slav.

The lack of Pirc/KID on top level I don't find it very appealing and also most of the Pirc games I saw from last CBM went very tactical very fast.

I fancy also French mixed with the NID or Slav as my black repertoire.

Please advise
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
nyoke
God Member
*****
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 593
Location: BELGIUM
Joined: 12/31/06
Gender: Male
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #5 - 05/22/08 at 17:37:49
Post Tools
First I'd advise against playing 'the same thing' with both colours. It's not the same thing and it's easy to lose track...
For Black I think you can't beat the Caro-Slav combo especially with your penchant for positional play (and lack of enthusiasm to plunge into the deep seas of theory).
For White it is much harder to choose but if you like positions with a king's fianchetto than this offers a simple solution with (some) bite. If you go the 
Reti way (Nf3, g3, ...) you can buy enough time to evade the pure symmetrical of the english by transposing to the fianchetto variation against the Dragon.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
kylemeister
God Member
*****
Offline



Posts: 4989
Location: USA
Joined: 10/24/05
Re: Strategic repertoire choice discussion
Reply #4 - 05/22/08 at 15:55:33
Post Tools
The statement "taking back with the e-pawn in the Benoni just offers an equal game for White ..." is debatable.  For example, the line reached after 1. d4 g6 2. c4 Bg7 3. Nc3 c5 4. d5 d6 5. e4 Nf6 6. Nf3 0-0 7. Bd3 e6 8. 0-0 (also 8. h3 ed 9. ed is a major line) ed 9. ed has long been generally given as leading to a slight advantage for White (see e.g. Spassky-Fischer '92), though a game and notes by Dautov a few years ago (involving the move 12...Nh5 after 9...Bg4 10. h3 Bxf3 11. Qxf3 Nbd7 12. Qd1, if I recall correctly) seemed to dispute that.  It seems that people haven't been eager to repeat that for Black since then, though.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo