Zatara wrote on 06/13/08 at 06:46:48:


Here are my thoughts on this topic:

1. I think you can conclude based on what the other posters have said on this matter. Based on what you play vs. 1.e4 you may find a good transpositional move like 2. ... d6, 2. ... e6 etc. I play the Najdorf so I use 1. Nf3 d6, but still I have to know a bit of the Classical Pirc as 1. Nf3 d6 2. d4 g6 is the most accurate continuation (then 3. c4 f5 and we are back on Dutch waters) and not 2. d4 f5?! 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. Bg5 which is a bit awkward for Black.

2. You then need to avoid playing g6 early on, e.g. 1. d4 f5 2. c4 g6 and h4 now makes sense. Think that White may combine the K-side attack with an e4-break and where will your King go? So better play 1. d4 f5 2. c4 Nf6 (I myself play d6 here), if 3. Bg5 e6!? and there is no Leningrad, but it is a good reponse. Another tip is to wait first for White to play Nf3 - Nf3 blocks some pawns and the Queen's path to the K-side. My usual waiting move is d6, but that depends on White's play this far, as there are times when d7-d5 is preferred to d7-d6 (see my point below on the Dutch Stonewall).

3. I only have Kindermann's book, but it seems so good I am 100% recommending it to you (I own his Spanish Exchange book too, which is also excellent). It is heavy on variations, but he also gives a nice introduction on the main themes of the opening which is a good place to start.

4. My experience so far with the Leningrad is a bit painful. It looks like an opening that suits me (esp. as a former KID player) but I had quite a lot of set-backs. It is complicated and you need to invest some time to get a good 'feel' for it. But I think in the long-run I will get the hang of it and so far I have not regrets for it substituting my KID. So my tip: be sure you like the opening and then go to study it and play many games - even invest in many losses with it. Second tip: Learn the basics of the Dutch Stonewall as well as it is the best responce against many anti-Leningrad systems.

All of the above are well explained and supported in Kindermann's book - so not really my 2c  

It's pretty childish and amateurish to state that after 1.Nf3 f5 2.d3 Black is lost or in severe trouble.

If anyone read Kindermann's book diligently, than he can immediately come up to the point: there is no clear refutation and Black has many ways to play. But since 1... d6 is good transposition move, so Kindermann recommends it.

By the way Carlsen has currently rating of 2795 Elo (check live rating: http://chess.liverating.org/) so it's pretty normal that he outplayed Gurevich in line 1.Nf3 f5 2.d3! After all he is a future champion.

1.Nf3 f5!? is quite playable after all!

See the following thread from the Flank openings section: http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1098049385

For some reason people lost interest in it. 

Pumi, you are right : it is a normal Najdorf. But perhaps you'll agree that is not the simplest Sicilian ? And that Sicilians are not the most untheoretical of openings ?
Then, in this context where one is trying to cut corners to retain the chance to get a normal Leningrad it is not the most obvious choice, is it  ?
It is very much like dodging the bike to get hit by a loaded truck. 
(I replied to Enders' suggestion of 1... d6 and 2... f5)

Yes, 1. Nf3, d6 2. e4, c5 3. d4 gives you a sicilian but a rather ugly one...

Hi Everyone,
Questions about Dutch Leningrad
1. I hear that Carlsen's play after 1.Nf3 f5 2.d3 was spectacular.  Should one find a new move order vs 1.nf3 or can one still get an ok game from 1Nf3 f5?
2. worried about h4 type systems any move order ideas would be most helpful!! 
3.  How good are beim's book and Kinderman's book?  I do have Pendersens Attacking with the Dutch or something like that.   
4. Any other tips for the Dutch Leningrad player??
Thanks for your help,
Zatara