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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Kings indian player worries (Read 14304 times)
wcywing
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #23 - 10/26/08 at 02:00:30
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TopNotch wrote on 10/26/08 at 01:26:26:


What is this afaik?  Huh

Toppy Smiley


afaik= As Far As I Know; cool huh?  Cool

one more thing, i feel Na6 or Nc6 are both good, just depends on you style.  according to Martin Nc6 are for those that like more direct action and kingside attack.  Na6 are for those that want a more strategic and flexible style.  i know i can lose with either move equally well.   Grin
  
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TopNotch
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #22 - 10/26/08 at 01:26:26
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wcywing wrote on 10/25/08 at 18:58:09:
Chessmoby wrote on 07/08/08 at 10:48:47:
I have been a KID player ever since i saw some of the beauties that this opening produces yet lately i hear that the KID is in trouble and has not been played much recently??!?!?!?!?
what a travesty this is for chess!!
if so, can anyone tell me which lines are supposedly causing problems so that i can work out an adequate system.

NB. i have been playing semi-slav recently so have not followed many of the theoretical developments


i don't think the KID is not dead, just not in fashion right now.  semi-slav is the hot opening right now.  i refuse to believe that an opening endorsed by Fischer, Kasparov, Bronstein, Gligoric, etc is refuted.  afaik the only Super GM that plays KID freq is Rad, i think he is doing quite well.  

of course there are lines that gives black problems, but thats in every opening.  i would not worry, unless you are playing Anand  Wink  it would be cool if Kramnik tried KID and came back, that would revive popularity.   Cheesy  or if Anand used it to finish off Kramnik.

i guess the line that gives me fits is the Fianchetto version.  


What is this afaik?  Huh

Toppy Smiley
  
The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds - Lloyd Jones Smiley
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SniperOnG7
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #21 - 10/25/08 at 21:20:16
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wcywing, you can always delay ...d6 so that when white plays the fianchetto, you can transpose to the Grunfeld with ...d7-d5.
  
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wcywing
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #20 - 10/25/08 at 18:58:09
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Chessmoby wrote on 07/08/08 at 10:48:47:
I have been a KID player ever since i saw some of the beauties that this opening produces yet lately i hear that the KID is in trouble and has not been played much recently??!?!?!?!?
what a travesty this is for chess!!
if so, can anyone tell me which lines are supposedly causing problems so that i can work out an adequate system.

NB. i have been playing semi-slav recently so have not followed many of the theoretical developments


i don't think the KID is not dead, just not in fashion right now.  semi-slav is the hot opening right now.  i refuse to believe that an opening endorsed by Fischer, Kasparov, Bronstein, Gligoric, etc is refuted.  afaik the only Super GM that plays KID freq is Rad, i think he is doing quite well.   

of course there are lines that gives black problems, but thats in every opening.  i would not worry, unless you are playing Anand  Wink  it would be cool if Kramnik tried KID and came back, that would revive popularity.   Cheesy  or if Anand used it to finish off Kramnik.

i guess the line that gives me fits is the Fianchetto version.   
  
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sssthepro
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #19 - 10/25/08 at 06:01:50
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 08/01/08 at 15:38:09:
This is just a point of clarification:

Matemax was talking about 6...Na6.  I presumed that he was thinking the first moves were: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 (or Be2) 0-0 6.Be2 (or Nf3).

In other words, 6...Nbd7 would occur before ...e5.  6...Na6 definitely came about after 6...Nbd7, and again, came about as a result of concrete analysis which showed that White has some excellent options after 6...Nbd7 that are no long so excellent after 6...Na6.

Of course, White has come up with a new main line against 6...Na6 which tries to exploit the relative weakness in the center compared compared to 6...Nbd7, but that's another topic. ... I think.



May I know which main line you are referring to?
  
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #18 - 09/21/08 at 12:21:22
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What do you do against the plan with c5 against Na6?

1. d4 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. Nc3 Bg7 4. e4 d6 5. Nf3 O-O 6. Be2 e5 7. O-O Na6 8. Be3 Ng4 9. Bg5 Qe8 10. c5
  
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #17 - 08/31/08 at 13:25:26
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Let's suppose that Black is just dead in the line 9.Ne1 Nd7 10.Nd3 f5 11.Bd2 Nf6 12.f3 f4 13.c5 g5.

The question is if Black is dead in the Be3-lines - cause there he has no alternative to pushing f5-f4. In lines with Bd2 White has placed his bishop on a "second rated" square and therefore "theoretically thinking" Black should be OK. I like flexibility after 11.Bd2 - thinking of c6, Kh8, Ng8, Bh6 and so on and only finally closing the positions if its either to my advantage or it cant be avoided any longer.

The Dragon lives - The Kings Indian lives - what wonderful times for us!
  
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #16 - 08/31/08 at 12:45:58
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Let's suppose that Black is just dead in the line 9.Ne1 Nd7 10.Nd3 f5 11.Bd2 Nf6 12.f3 f4 13.c5 g5.  Are there then strategically any viable ideas for Black to have hopes of equality after 7...Nc6?  Or after Nc6, is he more or less committed to this sharp variation or else just conceding White an easy slight edge?  (Like for example I can see that if Black plays fxe4, he's probably not losing by force, but that position doesn't look any fun to play for Black.)
  
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #15 - 08/01/08 at 15:38:09
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This is just a point of clarification:

Matemax was talking about 6...Na6.  I presumed that he was thinking the first moves were: 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6 3.Nc3 Bg7 4.e4 d6 5.Nf3 (or Be2) 0-0 6.Be2 (or Nf3).

In other words, 6...Nbd7 would occur before ...e5.  6...Na6 definitely came about after 6...Nbd7, and again, came about as a result of concrete analysis which showed that White has some excellent options after 6...Nbd7 that are no long so excellent after 6...Na6.

Of course, White has come up with a new main line against 6...Na6 which tries to exploit the relative weakness in the center compared compared to 6...Nbd7, but that's another topic. ... I think.
  
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #14 - 07/30/08 at 18:46:03
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It appears to me that over the years it has pretty much been the consensus that 7...Nc6 is more likely to equalize (or lead to an unclear position) than 7...Na6 (which seems typically to lead to "+=").  This, I think, lends justification to the idea that 7...Nc6 is the main/most principal (?!) move.
  
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #13 - 07/30/08 at 09:32:07
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Well when I looked at this from a white perspective the positions after 7.. Nc6 just looked nice for white but 7.. Na6  was much harder.

After all 7 .. Nc6 does concede a lot of space with tempo and fundamentally represents a very early commitment to an all out kingside attack. There's no a priori reason that this should be a sounder way to play than staying flexible - or indeed even that it should be a rational way to play.

It's just what you like. I guess that many KID players will have been attracted to it by the all out attacks so will tend towards 7.. Nc6. If I did play the KID myself I'd almost certainly try 7.. Na6.
« Last Edit: 07/31/08 at 09:27:15 by MartinC »  
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Matemax
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #12 - 07/29/08 at 20:15:35
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I agree with so much that Matemax said, and then he went and suggested that 

Quote:
6...Na6 in the Classical is a second rated move (Knight on the edge, no pressure on the center)
and said that Nd7 is a better move.

Something is mixing here  Grin

Nc6 is the principal approach for me in the KI - Na6 and Nbd7 are somewhat byways

Thinking about playing Nd7 was a concrete proposal according to the already given moves 

Agree  Wink ?!
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #11 - 07/29/08 at 19:30:11
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I agree with so much that Matemax said, and then he went and suggested that 

Quote:
6...Na6 in the Classical is a second rated move (Knight on the edge, no pressure on the center)
and said that Nd7 is a better move.

6...Na6 didn't spring up out of thin air, it came about as players noticed that 6...Nbd7 has certain concrete problems attached that ...Na6 would avoid.  If very strong GMs are using the move in several games, then maybe it isn't a second-rate move.  As an advocate of the White side, I see 6...Na6 as proof that the KID is still rich in resources and unfortunately is still alive and kicking.

I like to agree with Petrosian, who really did make the KID look unsound.  But I find the wealth of new ideas for both sides boggling.
  
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #10 - 07/14/08 at 09:38:10
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After 7Bf4 Nd7 8.Qd2 e5 9Bh6 white scores quite well. At the moment this Bf4 seems to cause more problems for black than allowing exchange variation with  6....e5 7.0.0 Na6. Even in this position, beginning to think if play KID at all should go in for the fun lines with 7...Nc6.

Bye John S
  
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Matemax
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Re: Kings indian player worries
Reply #9 - 07/11/08 at 15:49:11
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As 6...Na6 in the Classical is a second rated move (Knight on the edge, no pressure on the center) its no wonder that there are problems awaiting Black  Huh

On the other hand I would go for 7...Nd7 against 7.Bf4 with e5 to follow - but honestly I have not studied this line as I always go 6...Nc6
  
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