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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) BDG-Alchemy variation (Read 8894 times)
MNb
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #11 - 09/22/08 at 01:33:49
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For you - alas still not for me. I checked 5 seconds before writing this.
  
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Gambit
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #10 - 09/22/08 at 00:05:42
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I checked the link, and it works.
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #9 - 09/21/08 at 18:23:49
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Strange, the link indeed no longer works!  Must be a dodgy server or something.
  
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TonyRo
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #8 - 09/21/08 at 17:27:24
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I want the BDG to be good, but deep down, I don't believe in it. For instance, in one line on the website he gives (I think, I'm doing this from memory, so I might be adding or subtracting important moves): 

1. d4 d5 2. e4 de 3. Nc3 Nf6 4. f3 ef 5. Nf3 Bf5 6. Bc4 c6 7. 0-0 e6 8. Ng5!? Bg6 9. Ne2 Bd6 10. Nf4 Bf4 11. Bf4 Nd5 12. Bc1! h6 13. Nf3 0-0 14. a4! Nd7 15. Ra3! Qc7 16. Nh4 Bh7 17. Rg3 Kh8 18. Bh6!

That's all well and good, but why give only 15...Qc7 if the move sucks? Maybe I missed the improvement somewhere, since the website and the analysis is quite jumbled and messy, but after looking at this for awhile, I couldn't find anything convincing for White after 15...Qe7. Just a simply move that connects the rooks, keeps h4 guarded, maybe prepares ...e5 or ...c5 at some point. I'd take Black, but you of course have to be careful.  Grin
  
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SWJediknight
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #7 - 09/20/08 at 23:27:37
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The only hint I can find is this comment from the website:

"8.Ng5! is the novelty which was found, which was fairly drained (!) from the deepest corner of the chessboard  which turned to be, at least for that short moment, rather some alchymistic lab than a board with black-and-white squares. "

I'm not convinced either.
  
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MNb
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #6 - 09/20/08 at 19:02:25
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SWJediknight wrote on 09/20/08 at 14:50:11:

Btw did you discover 7.0-0 e6 8.Ng5 Bg6 9.Ne2 with Fritz by any chance?

You will have to ask Rajmund, the move is his. See the link in ArKhein's post. That's to say, if it works, because it doesn't for me.

Later edit: I mean that the link does not work for me. I don't know why, JediKnight and ArKhein seem to have no problem. Concerning Rajmund's English: he may be excused as he is a Czech.
« Last Edit: 09/21/08 at 01:38:24 by MNb »  
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SWJediknight
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #5 - 09/20/08 at 14:50:11
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Yes- I remember that discussion well.

Btw did you discover 7.0-0 e6 8.Ng5 Bg6 9.Ne2 with Fritz by any chance?  It's not a move I would consider immediately if "left to my own devices" but I note Fritz recommends it straightaway.  I agree that the line should offer White good practical chances (the line leaves White with the two bishops and good central control) but that, objectively speaking, it's doubtful whether it's enough.

I still think my suggestion 8...Bb4! is a big spanner in the works of the approach of Bg5, Qe2 and 0-0-0, though the resulting positions are still pretty unclear- while MNb demonstrated that other lines give White a strong attack.

In view of these discussions my conclusion is that the O'Kelly defence to the BDG (4...c6) is no better or worse than 4...exf3.
  
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MNb
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #4 - 09/19/08 at 21:10:53
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ArKheiN wrote on 09/19/08 at 15:38:39:
objectively, 0-0-0 with Bg5/Qe2 should be best and may be unclear/equal.

How could I forget about this one?  Embarrassed

http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1203996272/30#30

But skip all the bickerings.
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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ArKheiN
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #3 - 09/19/08 at 15:38:39
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Rajmund's website is still there : http://www.mujweb.cz/www/rajmunde/IntroEN2.htm ; but analysis didn't moved since, and on the forum, improvment for Black have been found, so yes I think it's about =/+ with the line beginning with 9..Bd6 and 10..Bxf4. But as MNb said, that's still not very known because there is no source for Black that show 8.Ng5!? and there is still practical chance. I only faced it on blitz as White and always got a good game (but Black didn't play 9..Bd6 and 10..Bxf4) but I faced 9..Bd6 on corr 2 times and I had to fight to get a difficult draw. So 8.Ng5 is maybe the best move with 0-0 but objectively, 0-0-0 with Bg5/Qe2 should be best and may be unclear/equal.
  
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MNb
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #2 - 09/19/08 at 13:45:28
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I consider 8.Ng5 an improvement on 8.Ne5, but still not entirely good enough. I am sure it will offer decent practical chances in OTB-chess. As it's still virtually unknown - not to be found in the numerous attempts to refute the BDG, like this one:

http://www.jeremysilman.com/chess_bits_pieces/110103_blackmar_dmr_gmbt.html

you might try it even as a surprise weapon in a corr.game. As far as I know Raymund's site (is it still on-line?) is the only source of thorough analysis. Objectively I still think it's =+ and if my memory for once serves me well Bonsai found the road to it. Alas I'm too lazy to find the concerning thread.
My main complaint is, while I racognize that the Alchemy seriously challenges Black's ultrasolid Caro-Kann setup, that the manoeuvre Nb1-c3-e2-f4 is pretty slow. That is a serious problem in a development gambit (and now I am sure to get a reaction from ArKhein).
  
The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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ArKheiN
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Re: BDG-Alchemy variation
Reply #1 - 09/19/08 at 13:20:43
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I guess you mean 10..Bxf4 11.Bxf4. I think that it may be the most testing defense against the Alchemy variation. We have a "big" debate on the forum in the past about that line and I still don't find White's game easy. White may have compensation, but full, I don't know, Black's defense is really really solid, with chances to reach a final with a pawn up.
  
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flaviddude
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BDG-Alchemy variation
09/19/08 at 07:37:59
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How do people assess the position after 

1. d4 d5
2. e4 dxe
3.Nc3 Nf6
4. f3 exf
5. Nxf3 c6
6.Bc4 Bf5
7.0-0 e6
8.Ng5 Bg6
9.Ne2 Bd6
10.Nf4 Bxd6
11Bd6 0-0   

In my opinion white has considerable positional compensation for the pawn

-two bishops
-better placed pieces

but there is no clear plan for either side. Has white sufficient Compensation?
  
I am hopelessly addicted to the King's Gambit
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