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Poll closed Question: Who will win the World Championship in 2008?
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*** This poll has now closed ***


Vishy Anand by at least 2 points    
  1 (1.3%)
Vladimir Kramnik by at least 2 pts    
  2 (2.6%)
Vishy, but it will be close    
  26 (34.2%)
Kramnik, but it will be close    
  36 (47.4%)
A tie and Anand wins    
  4 (5.3%)
A tie and Kramnik wins    
  7 (9.2%)




Total votes: 76
« Created by: Smyslov_Fan on: 10/13/08 at 04:26:14 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! (Read 76898 times)
FischerTal
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #151 - 10/23/08 at 22:04:21
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this is spot on re. Lasker - just take a look at New York 24 book where for example Lasker is the only one to master defending against Reti's system
  
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micawber
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #150 - 10/23/08 at 20:14:22
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It might even be argued that Lasker had allready given up before the match started. Lasker had offered Capablanca the title without playing a match.  
It was actually Capablanca who insisted on playing for the title.

As for Lasker not being of world champion calliber after the match, i dont agree. In 1924 he won the famous New York tournament, ahead of Capablanca and Aljechin and his level of play had certainly improved when compared with the WC match.
In 1925 he finished second in Moscow, half a point behind Bogoljubov, but before Capablanca.
It was unfortunately a falling out over the prize money and starting fees (compared with Capablanca), that caused him to refuse an invitation to the New York 1927 tournament. 

Saying that after his last title match Lasker was no longer champion material, when in 1924 and 1925 he tournament results were superior to Capablanca is a bit like saying that Kasparov was no longer championship material after losing his title to Kramnik. Even though his tournament results after the match were superior to Kramnik's.

He didnt play any tournaments between 1926 and 1934, but when he 
came back in 1934 he still was a formidable opponent.
In Moscow 1935 he finished third behind Botwinnik and Flohr,
but again ahead of Capablanca.
By 1936 Capablanca and Aljechin where  superior in strength and new stars like Botwinnik, Euwe, Fine and Keres had appeared. 
If you doubt his playing strength in 1936, replay his game
with Botwinnik from the Nottingham tournament. Here Lasker introduced the minority attack in conjunction with an early Bg5 in the Grunfeld.
  
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Smyslov_Fan
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #149 - 10/23/08 at 19:08:38
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This looks a bit like the Lasker-Capablanca match in that Lasker was a long-time champion facing a deadly opponent.  As soon as Lasker went behind, he seemed to give up (before giving up entirely).  Capa later argued that he never had the worst position in any of his games of that match, but that claim didn't hold up.

Lasker did go on to defeat Capablanca in tournament play, but Lasker's career as a world champion caliber player was over.

I hope that Kramnik will win at least one, and perhaps even two games before the end of the match, but it's only hope.  What I've seen of the games is that Kramnik will either lash out recklessly in this next game or simply fold.  In either case, it's more likely that Anand will mantain or increase his lead than for Kramnik to make the score more respectable.

At this point, if I had to predict, I'd say that Anand doesn't lose, and may even win one more.
  
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Nietzsche
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #148 - 10/23/08 at 17:31:31
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When Kramnik beat Kasparov it was the only time since Capablanca-Lasker 1921 that someone had won a championship match without losing a single game.  Anand appears to be close to achieving this as well.

Does anyone think Vlad will not gain a single win?

Does anyone still think Kramnik can win this match?
Any bold supporters?
  

"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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Keano
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #147 - 10/23/08 at 16:30:33
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Good result for Anand, all about creeping over the line at this point.
  
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micawber
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #146 - 10/23/08 at 16:14:39
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* * * * * * * *
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This raises the question what would have happened after 
32.bxa iso 32.b5...(see diag)

32....bxa 33.Rb1! still seems to give white something to play with.....
Perhaps a topic for the endgame section.......

Just saw that the remarkable chessdom site.
Thx Mupas for drawing my attention to it        Smiley
has the following remarkable variation:

32....bxa5 33.Rb1,Nc5 34.Bxc5,Rxc5 35.Rb5,Rc5
overlooking the simple 36.e4 and black does have problems.

CORRECTION

36.e4,Rd4 37.Rxa5,c3 and black escapes
so
36.Rb6 should be better.
  
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chk
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #145 - 10/23/08 at 16:07:33
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Yes, he was creating a fortress with a5 (even with the minor pieces on). The only important thing for him was to force the exchange of Rooks..

A nice game to watch actually - I had some problems comprehending what the hec was going on during the previous ones!  Cool
  

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micawber
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #144 - 10/23/08 at 15:49:30
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Unless I am very much mistaken Kramnik just committed an uncharacteristic endgame mistake.
31...a5 ? 32.b5!,c3?! 33.Rc2 (33.Kd3 stronger)
What the hec is 31...a5 for. 

Well still a draw hopefully:
33....Kf7 played
My opinion:
34.Kd3,Nc5 35.Bxc5,Rxc5 36 Rxc3,Rxc3 and the black has a fortress in the pawn endgame.

Wow,
At last a correct prediction:
Draw agreed in the following position:

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*
  
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MUBAs Opponent
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #143 - 10/23/08 at 15:43:28
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Thank you!!!
  
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micawber
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #142 - 10/23/08 at 15:40:08
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Oeps,

Chessdom missed 30...dxc 31.Rc1,Rc8 32.g4 
For correct public transmission see www.chessvibes.com
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #141 - 10/23/08 at 15:34:46
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Thank goodness! Does make it so hard to follow, though, when you can't see the real position....  Undecided
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #140 - 10/23/08 at 15:25:44
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Both players deserve another loss, unless chessdom.com has got the moves wrong again. Didn't Kramnik just blunder a rook, and didn't Anand just miss it?
  
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micawber
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #139 - 10/23/08 at 14:19:18
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We are at move 22 by now, and it seems dead equal to me,
with no complications at all. Under normal circumstances Kramnik
could be very satisfied with the outcome. But a draw will bring him
just closer to the brink. 
Kramnik can play on for a while, as this is a position that probably suits him better than Anand, but I predict a draw.
Which leaves Anand with the task to score 1,5 out of 5, which should be no special problem.

Update at move 26. I might be wrong, but I dont see a constructive plan for either side.
Well both sides have something to celebrate:
Every half point brings Anand closer to prolongation of his title.
Kramnik managed to stay out of trouble for the second time, with black.

Update at move 29
It seems to me that Kramnik has stirred up unnecessary trouble, by changing a position with a rather static equilibrium into a tactical and sharp position. He opened the position with fxe and followed up with b6 apparently aiming to play Nc5. But he is allowing white to open the position further with e4 correcting his pawn structure and making full use of his bishop. 
I am not a Kramnik supporter, but I hope I am wrong.
He doenst deserve another loss.

Update
I must have been wrong, obviously. Anand played b4 iso e4.
I worried a bit about
30.e4,Nc5 (30....xe4 31.b4! and white wins back his pawn in a superior position) 31.exd,exd 32.Rf3 and white threatens to double on the c-line and/or march his king to e3, while blacks king remains a spectator on g6.
« Last Edit: 10/23/08 at 15:26:41 by micawber »  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #138 - 10/23/08 at 13:25:20
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Well, that was a bizarre experience  Cheesy  Following the game on chessdom.com with Dimitrov's commentary, I saw this:

1. c4 c6 2. Nf3 Nf6 3. e3 "3. Ne5 is the main alternative" -- Dimitrov

3... e6 4. 0-0 "More precise move order than 4. 0-0" -- Dimitrov

4... 0-0 5. Nd5 Nxd5 6. cxd5 Re8 7. Ne1 "Up to now the opponents follow the 1st game of the play-off of the above mentioned match." -- Dimitrov.

As you can imagine, I was thinking one big WTF? Then I refreshed and the correct moves came up. So tame by comparison....
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #137 - 10/22/08 at 23:24:52
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You mean the Anand-Kasparov game where the last move is ...Rxc2?
  
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