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Poll closed Question: Who will win the World Championship in 2008?
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Vishy Anand by at least 2 points    
  1 (1.3%)
Vladimir Kramnik by at least 2 pts    
  2 (2.6%)
Vishy, but it will be close    
  26 (34.2%)
Kramnik, but it will be close    
  36 (47.4%)
A tie and Anand wins    
  4 (5.3%)
A tie and Kramnik wins    
  7 (9.2%)




Total votes: 76
« Created by: Smyslov_Fan on: 10/13/08 at 04:26:14 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! (Read 76837 times)
chk
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #196 - 10/29/08 at 14:29:39
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They have started with a very sharp Najdorf.

The main imbalance here is:

Anand allowing an imbalanced position to Kramnik
vs.
I suppose Anand should be more familiar with the resulting positions (as a Sicilian player)

(plus Anand has White!)

...nervous...nervous... Undecided
  

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Keano
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #195 - 10/29/08 at 13:38:04
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Yes but now all he has to do is prevent a win with Black - thats a lot different than having someone on your coat-tails for a long-time like Kasparov did to Karpov.
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #194 - 10/29/08 at 11:43:26
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Keano wrote on 10/29/08 at 10:53:49:
I am also rooting for Anand, but I have to say 12 games just strikes me as insufficent to decide the World Champion - a bad start has to be allowed for, I mean Kasparov came back from Karpov at 5-0 in the first to 6 match. A longer match also gives a more stern test of character to the players, and we need to see them suffer!


Oh, I'm pretty sure that they do suffer. Anand must be nerve-racked today.
  
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Keano
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #193 - 10/29/08 at 10:53:49
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I am also rooting for Anand, but I have to say 12 games just strikes me as insufficent to decide the World Champion - a bad start has to be allowed for, I mean Kasparov came back from Karpov at 5-0 in the first to 6 match. A longer match also gives a more stern test of character to the players, and we need to see them suffer!
  
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MNb
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #192 - 10/29/08 at 10:15:17
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ANDREW BRETT wrote on 10/29/08 at 07:49:26:
IMHO We're only saying that a slightly longer match would be preferable now that Kramnik has woken up !


No no no no no. Before the match I already stated that 12 games were not enough. And so I did last couple of years. Moreover I root for Anand. So you won't hear me say he does not deserve winning the match. Really, the only reason I want more games is that I want blood on the board.
  

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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #191 - 10/29/08 at 08:22:30
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ANDREW BRETT wrote on 10/29/08 at 07:49:26:
The big mystery to me is why Vishy suddenly decided 14 bb7 was no good- I'd have carried on until it was refuted as the positions were ones that Kramnik didn't enjoy. 

Still hats off to Kramnik for the win and for nearly winning the previous game. ( Qc7 was systematic of the weakening of VK's overall game- too keen to avoid middlegame complications). Still very good game with white . He's never beaten Anand with Black so I think the show stops today. I wonder whether Vishy will go 1e4 but if he sticks with 1 d4 will Kramnik go Dutch or some wild slav.


Those positions with Bb7 were ultra sharp and Anand deviated relatively early in the second outing. I'm sure he doesn't want to potentially run into something Kramnik's team came up with. I'd love to see 1. e4 for the next game, but I just can't imagine that he'd trot that out now. I do wonder what Kramnik would play if he did face that.
  
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ANDREW BRETT
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #190 - 10/29/08 at 07:49:26
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The older 24 game matches suffered a bit because there would be the odd 'unofficial' rest day with some pretty lame games played . 

IMHO We're only saying that a slightly longer match would be preferable now that Kramnik has woken up ! It's his own fault for losing twice with White. The big mystery to me is why Vishy suddenly decided 14 bb7 was no good- I'd have carried on until it was refuted as the positions were ones that Kramnik didn't enjoy. 

Still hats off to Kramnik for the win and for nearly winning the previous game. ( Qc7 was systematic of the weakening of VK's overall game- too keen to avoid middlegame complications). Still very good game with white . He's never beaten Anand with Black so I think the show stops today. I wonder whether Vishy will go 1e4 but if he sticks with 1 d4 will Kramnik go Dutch or some wild slav.
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #189 - 10/28/08 at 21:13:20
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Markovich wrote on 10/28/08 at 13:26:41:
I'm not sure that I agree.  I have a very long attention span, but I always thought that the marathon matches of the Soviet era were mighty tedious.  Why should you have to be an iron man to be the world chess champion?  Lasker and Schlechter only played ten games, and so far as I'm aware, nobody at the time thought it was a travesty.


It's not that I think this match a travesty - it's just that the bad side of my character would like to see Anand suffer a little longer! Imagine a 24 or even 16 games format. Kramnik would have had some chances left to make Anand's life difficult. Sure, a come-back from 0-3 hardly ever has happened, but I miss the sensation of the K-K matches.
  

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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #188 - 10/28/08 at 18:03:54
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Scholar wrote on 10/28/08 at 17:12:56:
Markovich wrote on 10/28/08 at 13:26:41:
Keano wrote on 10/28/08 at 09:10:00:
Well yes 12 games for a World ch match is frankly ridiculous - it should be a marathon and not a sprint.

My prefence would be for a 30 game match, 24 games the very minimum.


I'm not sure that I agree.  I have a very long attention span, but I always thought that the marathon matches of the Soviet era were mighty tedious.  Why should you have to be an iron man to be the world chess champion?  Lasker and Schlechter only played ten games, and so far as I'm aware, nobody at the time thought it was a travesty.

There's something nice about the number sixteen, maybe because it's a power of two.  That's the number of games that Lasker and Tarrasch played.  From my point of view, that is the practical maximum that should decide the WCh.


My memory is not so long, but for recent matches, 12 has seemed short, as evidenced by it so often coming down to draw odds or tiebreakers for a decision.  16 seems like a fine number to me -- more than that risks taking too long.

I agree with Keano that one could do this in almost the same amount of time by limiting rest days.  Just put a rest day after every three games or so instead.

Spassky-Fischer was effectively over after 10 games as were most of his other matches.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #187 - 10/28/08 at 17:12:56
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Markovich wrote on 10/28/08 at 13:26:41:
Keano wrote on 10/28/08 at 09:10:00:
Well yes 12 games for a World ch match is frankly ridiculous - it should be a marathon and not a sprint.

My prefence would be for a 30 game match, 24 games the very minimum.


I'm not sure that I agree.  I have a very long attention span, but I always thought that the marathon matches of the Soviet era were mighty tedious.  Why should you have to be an iron man to be the world chess champion?  Lasker and Schlechter only played ten games, and so far as I'm aware, nobody at the time thought it was a travesty.

There's something nice about the number sixteen, maybe because it's a power of two.  That's the number of games that Lasker and Tarrasch played.  From my point of view, that is the practical maximum that should decide the WCh.


My memory is not so long, but for recent matches, 12 has seemed short, as evidenced by it so often coming down to draw odds or tiebreakers for a decision.  16 seems like a fine number to me -- more than that risks taking too long.

I agree with Keano that one could do this in almost the same amount of time by limiting rest days.  Just put a rest day after every three games or so instead.
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #186 - 10/28/08 at 13:26:41
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Keano wrote on 10/28/08 at 09:10:00:
Well yes 12 games for a World ch match is frankly ridiculous - it should be a marathon and not a sprint.

My prefence would be for a 30 game match, 24 games the very minimum.


I'm not sure that I agree.  I have a very long attention span, but I always thought that the marathon matches of the Soviet era were mighty tedious.  Why should you have to be an iron man to be the world chess champion?  Lasker and Schlechter only played ten games, and so far as I'm aware, nobody at the time thought it was a travesty.

There's something nice about the number sixteen, maybe because it's a power of two.  That's the number of games that Lasker and Tarrasch played.  From my point of view, that is the practical maximum that should decide the WCh.
  

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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #185 - 10/28/08 at 11:14:12
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Possibly a proper length World ch match would not find a sponsor, but I'm not convinced of this.

Regarding the 12 game match the rest days seem unnecesary to me - they are only playing 12 games - put a rest day in the middle somewhere and let them get on with it.

  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #184 - 10/28/08 at 10:49:47
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Modern times are fast - no one gives you money for a 30 game match. It has to be decided fast to keep the attention of the public.

I think Kramnik was just a bit unlucky this time - it could also have been vice versa if he took his chances and Anand would have to proof his risky play. Anand took the risk and was right - it could also have ended in a desaster for him.
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #183 - 10/28/08 at 10:06:00
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Willempie wrote on 10/28/08 at 08:48:23:
6 wins or maybe 4 would be better imo and no interference by Fide prezzes.


Since the first K-K match I have been cured from this format. Moreover I find Fischer's arguments to reintroduce it pretty lame in retrospect.
  

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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #182 - 10/28/08 at 09:10:00
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Well yes 12 games for a World ch match is frankly ridiculous - it should be a marathon and not a sprint.

My prefence would be for a 30 game match, 24 games the very minimum.
  
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