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Poll closed Question: Who will win the World Championship in 2008?
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Vishy Anand by at least 2 points    
  1 (1.3%)
Vladimir Kramnik by at least 2 pts    
  2 (2.6%)
Vishy, but it will be close    
  26 (34.2%)
Kramnik, but it will be close    
  36 (47.4%)
A tie and Anand wins    
  4 (5.3%)
A tie and Kramnik wins    
  7 (9.2%)




Total votes: 76
« Created by: Smyslov_Fan on: 10/13/08 at 04:26:14 »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! (Read 76894 times)
Nietzsche
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #31 - 10/15/08 at 01:13:52
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RE: "it's obvious how relaxed Anand was while drawing a position with a pawn down"

Did you watch video of the game on Foidos (or whatever they call it)?
You also mentioned that anand was "comfortable" "unimpressed" and didn't feel any pressure.  Are you saying this simply because of the moves he made or because that's how he actually looked at the board?  

I know Anand comfortably drew a pawn down against Kramnik in the WCC tournament at Mexico last year.  He was clearly disappointed in his opening preparation (i.e. he was a pawn down as white without any real compensation) but didn't seem bothered at all about drawing the game.  It was impressive, though I don't think he'd like to repeat that experience.  Wink

As for not seeing any pressure...well, try playing a world championship match!  Everyone that's played in one says its more intense pressure than anything else.  At least Botvinnik, Petrosian, Spassky, Tal, Kasparov, Karpov, Kramnik all said that.  I haven't heard anyone say "oh, its no big deal..."

Anyway, I'm not saying Kramnik's choice made Anand quake in his boots, but it was a safe choice and doesn't risk losing the very first game; which Leko and Topalov BOTH did against Kramnik.  Kasparov did draw the first, but lost the second game...but no pressure.
  

"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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MNb
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #30 - 10/15/08 at 01:00:48
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drkodos wrote on 10/14/08 at 21:40:42:

Many of the K-K draws were actual fights and well worth revisiting.


And most of the other K-K draws were completely lifeless. If you want I can present you a dozen or so.  Cheesy

Nietzsche, maybe Kramnik's logic was yours, but imo it failed completely. 16½ moves of theory, Anand devising a novelty behind the board (I assume) that gave him completely satisfactory play despite the pawn down. Sorry, but I don't see any psychological pressure. Anand was less than impressed and drew comfortably and not arduously; Kramnik has wasted an opportunity to play for a win.
I found the game less boring than Stormcrow and Willempie, mainly because it's obvious how relaxed Anand was while drawing a position with a pawn down, relying on activity.
The onus now is very much on Kramnik.
  

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Nietzsche
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #29 - 10/14/08 at 22:35:23
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RE: "Anand nervous and desperate when meeting the Slav Exchange? I rather think of emotions like relief. "

No, I mean nervous about playing for the world title in a match.  Afterall, Kasparov was #1 when Kramnik beat him and Topalov was #1 when Kramnik beat HIM. When Kramnik is healthy (and not playing 1.e4 Roll Eyes) he is very, very hard to beat. 

I also cannot imagine its a relief to play the exchange slav against Kramnik since you know its going to be arduous, and yet one significant slip can cost you the game.  Like I said, I don't imagine this is his main weapon, but its a nice way to open the match since its puts psychological pressure on Anand without taking any real chance of losing.  I can't wait to see what Anand has prepared.

Nietzsche
  

"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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drkodos
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #28 - 10/14/08 at 21:40:42
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MNb wrote on 10/14/08 at 21:06:29:
Nietzsche wrote on 10/14/08 at 18:59:36:
Almost zero losing chances but gives white a chance to poke black a little to see how nervous, desperate he is.

Anand nervous and desperate when meeting the Slav Exchange? I rather think of emotions like relief. And I think it might be bad match strategy indeed.
Come on Stormcrow and Willempie, show a little more patience or I'll make you play through all boring Kasparov-Karpov (and vice versa) draws played during the fiercest chess battle ever.


Many of the K-K draws were actual fights and well worth revisiting.


Not so this drek proffered by Kramnik.

K
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MNb
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #27 - 10/14/08 at 21:06:29
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Nietzsche wrote on 10/14/08 at 18:59:36:
Almost zero losing chances but gives white a chance to poke black a little to see how nervous, desperate he is.

Anand nervous and desperate when meeting the Slav Exchange? I rather think of emotions like relief. And I think it might be bad match strategy indeed.
Come on Stormcrow and Willempie, show a little more patience or I'll make you play through all boring Kasparov-Karpov (and vice versa) draws played during the fiercest chess battle ever.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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micawber
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #26 - 10/14/08 at 20:25:08
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Well the only thing that comes to mind is that Anand actually lost an endgame resulting from the Slav exchange some 15 years back.
This game was 14 moves of theory plus a continuation that showed accurate play by Anand.
Well the next game should show the main battlefield after 1.e4......

  
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Nietzsche
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #25 - 10/14/08 at 18:59:36
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The blasted official site said the match would start a few hours AFTER it had already started!   

They had this "countdown" clock running that still had a couple hours left when the game was already over.   
Man, I complete missed the first game thanks to those monkeys. Angry

BTW, the exchange slav was a great choice for game one.
Almost zero losing chances but gives white a chance to poke black a little to see how nervous, desperate he is.  I seriously doubt Kramnik will use it as a main weapon, but I think it was a nice idea to begin the match.
Let's see what Anand's got prepared for his first white.
  

"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #24 - 10/14/08 at 17:35:13
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I hope every game of this match is an Exchange Slav or a Petroff.  Grin
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #23 - 10/14/08 at 17:10:10
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Scholar wrote on 10/14/08 at 17:06:59:
Conventional wisdom is that the most important thing in the first game is simply not to lose.  I'm sure we'll see something different from Kramnik in future games, but perhaps he didn't want to tip his hand as to his preparation in a game where he wasn't prepared to take risks?

Who knows...as for the match, I think Kramnik has the advantage.  Looking forward to some interesting games -- 

Giving away an easy black to your opponent sure is a sign of strength....
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #22 - 10/14/08 at 17:06:59
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Conventional wisdom is that the most important thing in the first game is simply not to lose.  I'm sure we'll see something different from Kramnik in future games, but perhaps he didn't want to tip his hand as to his preparation in a game where he wasn't prepared to take risks?

Who knows...as for the match, I think Kramnik has the advantage.  Looking forward to some interesting games -- 

From http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2008/10/kramnik-anand-game-1.html:
Kramnik-Anand, Game 1
1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.cxd5 cxd5 5.Bf4 Nc6 6.e3 Bf5 7.Nf3 e6 8.Qb3 Bb4 9.Bb5 0–0 10.Bxc6 Bxc3+ 11.Qxc3 Rc8 12.Ne5 Ng4 13.Nxg4 Bxg4 14.Qb4 Rxc6 15.Qxb7 Qc8 16.Qxc8 Rfxc8 17.0–0 a5 18.f3 Bf5 19.Rfe1 Bg6 20.b3 f6 21.e4 dxe4 22.fxe4 Rd8 23.Rad1 Rc2 24.e5 fxe5 25.Bxe5 Rxa2 26.Ra1 Rxa1 27.Rxa1 Rd5 28.Rc1 Rd7 29.Rc5 Ra7 30.Rc7 Rxc7 31.Bxc7 Bc2 32.Bxa5 Bxb3
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #21 - 10/14/08 at 17:05:07
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wolfsblut wrote on 10/14/08 at 14:18:38:
Hi,
Oh really- I´am a bit disappointed by the play of Kramnik. Ok- 3.cxd5 is also chess and he is surely not in danger to loose, but I hope that the games that follows entertain me more than  that one. 
I don`t know, perhaps a little hard- what do you think?

greetings

wolfsblut

Huh sorry, I fell asleep...
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #20 - 10/14/08 at 14:18:38
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Hi,
Oh really- I´am a bit disappointed by the play of Kramnik. Ok- 3.cxd5 is also chess and he is surely not in danger to loose, but I hope that the games that follows entertain me more than  that one. 
I don`t know, perhaps a little hard- what do you think?

greetings

wolfsblut
  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #19 - 10/14/08 at 13:40:04
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like I said. Yawn
« Last Edit: 10/14/08 at 17:33:46 by J-dog »  
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #18 - 10/14/08 at 11:16:53
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If Anand wins by a large margin, I want it to be noted that my superior insight predicted this.

If not just forget about it Wink


Seriously imo the games 3 and 4 are crucial and I think Anand will come up with something similar to Short vs Karpov (as Short describes in the foreword to Greet's Spanish book) and get his opponent off balance.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships!
Reply #17 - 10/14/08 at 10:24:39
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Gerry1970 wrote on 10/14/08 at 02:12:46:
How does Anand play in terms of feel versus brute force calculation?


In his youth Anand was (in)famous for playing at GM-level without using more than 30 minutes in a classical time-control game. There is nothing wrong with Anand's feel/intuition; I would even say that it's best of the bunch.

drkodos wrote on 10/14/08 at 01:39:46:
Can I get a wake-up call after Toplalov mauls Kamsky and the real WC match begins?


And if Toppy is in for a nasty surprise? Kamsky has displayed some strong chess lately. Well, maybe it's just wishful thinking.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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