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Poll

Question: Who will win the World Championship in 2008?


* This poll has now closed *
Vishy Anand by at least 2 points 1 (1.3%) Vladimir Kramnik by at least 2 pts 2 (2.6%) Vishy, but it will be close 26 (34.2%) Kramnik, but it will be close 36 (47.4%) A tie and Anand wins 4 (5.3%) A tie and Kramnik wins 7 (9.2%) Total votes: 76 « Created by: Smyslov_Fan on: 10/13/08 at 04:26:14 »

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Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! (Read 76995 times)

MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10777 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #61 - 10/17/08 at 01:07:52	Post Tools	Print Post
	Nietzsche wrote on 10/16/08 at 22:36:23: I'll predict 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nh4 Bg6 7.Be2. This would be in accordance with your line of thinking in our little Slav Exchange dispute. If it's Kramnik's too this guess might be right - and I predict another easy draw for Anand. S_F is right, if Kramnik wants to win it must be 4.Nc3 dxc4 5.a4. And that will be great fun indeed.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #60 - 10/16/08 at 23:31:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	I don't think much of 4.e3 against the Slav. The real test is 4.Nc3 dc4 5.a4. Of course, trying to beat 4.Nc3 e6 is a thankless chore (unless Kramnik has something cool planned). Having said that, Kramnik will probably be more comfortable playing 4.e3, except that he probably wants to prove to Anand that he's not afraid of opening complications. The fun stuff is still ahead in this match!


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Nietzsche Senior Member Offline Huggy Bear is coming. You'd better run. Posts: 394 Location: USA Joined: 02/13/06 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #59 - 10/16/08 at 22:36:23	Post Tools	Print Post
	So, what do you think White will play tomorrow? I don't think Anand is going to allow a Catalan in this match and I don't think Kramnik is going to repeat exchange slav. I'll predict 1.d4 d5 2.c4 c6 3.Nf3 Nf6 4.e3 Bf5 5.Nc3 e6 6.Nh4 Bg6 7.Be2. Maybe a Meran?!

	"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10777 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #58 - 10/16/08 at 10:06:56	Post Tools	Print Post
	Keano wrote on 10/16/08 at 08:11:17: Well Kramnik drew it without too much problem, which shows how much I know! I genuinely thought Black was in big trouble .... You were not the only one, so thought IM Monokroussos: Quote: when White's bishop pair and Black's four(!) isolated pawns seem to give Anand very good chances. http://chessmind.powerblogs.com/ And the only reason I keep my mouth shut is that I understand zero of this game.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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ANDREW BRETT God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 622 Joined: 07/07/06	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #57 - 10/16/08 at 09:39:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	Feel Vishy wasted an opportunity today- Kramnik will be ready for 4 f3- who's afraid of that line ?


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Keano God Member Offline Money doesn't talk, it swears. Posts: 2928 Location: Toulouse Joined: 05/25/05 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #56 - 10/16/08 at 08:11:17	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well Kramnik drew it without too much problem, which shows how much I know! I genuinely thought Black was in big trouble - although as someone once said the value of the Knight v Bishop increases the less time on the clock... What did they say in the press conference? Or what to the engines say? I suppose its a case of discretion being the better part of valour, but Anand is going to have to make more of these types of positions to win the match, still early days yet....


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Smyslov_Fan God Member Correspondence fan Offline Progress depends on the unreasonable man. ~GBS Posts: 6902 Joined: 06/15/05	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #55 - 10/16/08 at 06:29:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	Since we have a rest day and the match is tied at one, I've re-opened the poll. It will close before the next game is played!


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Nietzsche Senior Member Offline Huggy Bear is coming. You'd better run. Posts: 394 Location: USA Joined: 02/13/06 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #54 - 10/16/08 at 01:09:01	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well, there ya go. Apparently, Kramnik did use that move order (at least once). Alatortsev it is. That's what I get for not waiting until I had a chance to check chessbase before posting... thanks for posting that game.

	"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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belgian Full Member Offline Passionate about chess and poker... Posts: 129 Location: Toronto Joined: 05/14/07 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #53 - 10/15/08 at 23:09:25	Post Tools	Print Post
	Nietzsche wrote on 10/15/08 at 21:28:40: Off hand, I don't think Kramnik uses 1...d5 Hmmm. He has done so in the past, even against Anand. [Event "WDR Match TV g/60"] [Site "Cologne"] [Date "1996.08.??"] [Round "0"] [White "Anand,Viswanathan"] [Black "Kramnik,Vladimir"] [Result "1/2"] [Eco "D56"] 1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 Be7 4.Nf3 Nf6 5.Bg5 h6 6.Bh4 0-0 7.e3 Ne4 8.Bxe7 Qxe7 9.Rc1 Nxc3 10.Rxc3 c6 11.Bd3 Nd7 12.0-0 dxc4 13.Bxc4 b6 14.Bd3 c5 15.Be4 Rb8 16.Qa4 Bb7 17.Bxb7 Rxb7 18.Rd1 b5 19.Qb3 a5 20.dxc5 Nxc5 21.Qc2 Na6 22.a3 b4 23.Rc6 Rc7 24.Nd4 bxa3 25.bxa3 Rfc8 26.Rxc7 Qxc7 27.Qe2 Qc4 28.Qf3 Nc7 29.h3 1/2


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Nietzsche Senior Member Offline Huggy Bear is coming. You'd better run. Posts: 394 Location: USA Joined: 02/13/06 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #52 - 10/15/08 at 21:28:40	Post Tools	Print Post
	Off hand, I don't think Kramnik uses 1...d5, 2...e6 to reach a QGD; so there's no Alatortsev. I don't have his games in front of me, so this is just my memory. But, as far as I know, he only goes for the QGD via 1. d4 Nf6 and 2. c4 e6 3.Nf3 order. Or the 1.Nf3 d5 move order. The idea, of course, is to avoid the Exchange/Carlsbad lines with Ne2 which Kasparov enjoyed so much.

	"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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Willempie God Member Offline I love ChessPublishing .com! Posts: 4312 Location: Holland Joined: 01/07/05	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #51 - 10/15/08 at 21:24:04	Post Tools	Print Post
	IMJohnCox wrote on 10/15/08 at 17:08:20: Wonder if we'll see the f3 Nimzo again?? Anyone call that? I am expecting a couple of similar openings by Anand. Not the pure main lines, but some decent sidelines, where Kramnik is taken out of his preparation, but still put under a certain pressure. I am guessing that he didnt expect a Nimzo, so that in other lines we may see something similar and better prepared. If Anand had expected the Nimzo and was fully prepared for it, I dont think he would have used that much time.

	If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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IMJohnCox God Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 1551 Location: London Joined: 01/28/06 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #50 - 10/15/08 at 20:59:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	Well if 3...Be7 was good enough for however many K-K games I guess it's good enough now. The Russians in general tend to go that way. I don't know what Kramnik used to do in his TMB days, though - anyone with a database like to tell us?


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J-dog Senior Member Offline Posts: 283 Location: Colorado Springs, CO Joined: 11/15/05 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #49 - 10/15/08 at 19:37:08	Post Tools	Print Post
	IM John Cox, would you recommend Kramnik to use the Be7 Alatortsev move order or the Nf6 move order to access the TMB positions? On a different note I think Anand should get ballsy and use the triangle move order on Kramnik to get to a Semi-Slav. An Abrahams or Marshall gambit would be amazing in a Wch match. Probably Kramnik would go Meran to keep things under control and avoid nasty prep.


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belgian Full Member Offline Passionate about chess and poker... Posts: 129 Location: Toronto Joined: 05/14/07 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #48 - 10/15/08 at 19:17:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	IMJohnCox wrote on 10/15/08 at 17:08:20: A couple more moves like Bc2? and White would have been very happy with a draw. [...] Wonder if we'll see the f3 Nimzo again?? Anyone call that? Well, it all depends on how successful you feel the opening was, no? Vlady avoided getting caught in Vishy's prep, but the opening evolved in a complex position where IMHO White chances are to be preferred. The patzer in me prefers the looks of 31.Rf2 to the clunky looking 31.Bc2, but the end position from the actual game is probably still objectively better for White (zeitnot aside). Now, OTH, Black had a number of safer-looking options (e.g. 16.-O-O; 16.-Ne5; 21.-Nge5). If I were in Vishy's camp, I'd favour giving 1.d4 intending 4.f3 against the NI another punt. Good match play so far by both players. Who will surprise who in next game, I wonder?


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Nietzsche Senior Member Offline Huggy Bear is coming. You'd better run. Posts: 394 Location: USA Joined: 02/13/06 Gender:	Re: Anand-Kramnik 2008 World Championships! Reply #47 - 10/15/08 at 18:18:12	Post Tools	Print Post
	RE: "He should be playing the Tartakover IMHO." I would love to see him play more of the Tartakover since it is in my repertoire... I want to steal his ideas! I remember he won (as Black) against Topalov in Linares about 10 years ago, and he won that game against Beliavsky. I don't think he's ever lost in the Tartakower, except a blitz game last year (when he hung a pawn to Grischuk in a nice tactic). Can anyone remember him losing a serious game with it? I don't think so. Anyway, hopefully today's game will help to quiet all this talk about "dry" and "boring" chess. Nietzsche p.s. - was anyone else not surprised by 1.d4? It's not like Anand hasn't played 1.d4 against Kramnik before and let's remember Topalov never played 1.e4 in their match. I cannot imagine this was a surprise to Kramnik's team, yet some reports are claiming such things. Seems ridiculous. Anand playing 1.b4 would be a real surprise...but not 1.d4.

	"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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