mangler wrote on 11/07/08 at 11:13:57:



You may like to consider other types of pet.

Goldfish require minimal upkeep but frankly dull.

Hamsters are cute and fun, but more for small kids. If you are a small kid (from the level of debate here, may apply to some ) go for it.

Maybe a chinchilla? Vastly underratted.

I am allegeric to dogs and cats. That is why I play the Najdorf.

Nietzsche wrote on 11/06/08 at 04:32:15:


Not only that, but you're gonna get a Great Dane.

CUSTOMER: "Can you recommend a small dog?"
CLERK: "Great Dane."
CUSTOMER: "But I said small dog..."
CLERK:  "You need a Great Dane. Trust me."
CUSTOMER: "But I want... a small dog?"
CLERK:  "Yeah, I know.  And I say you're gonna want a Great Dane."
CUSTOMER: "So, you think it's small?"
CLERK: "No, you idiot. Where did you get that crazy idea?"


Ok...I really am done with this (now) useless thread.

If Nietzsche is right and after 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 it is demonstrable that 3...Nc6 is better than any other move, I wonder why almost all GM's who want to play the Scotch chose the 2.Nf3 move order instead of nicely avoiding the Petrov.

Nietzsche wrote on 11/05/08 at 22:55:22:

As these two points obviously keep on hinder you I have finally decided to address them. It's very possible to play the C-K in an unsolid way: think of 5...gxf6 and 5...g6 vs the Panov, something I have already mentioned at page 1. Please note that several of the important lines I have sketched one of two pages before also are the less solid ones: 6...Bd6 and 5...Qh4.
Then I would like to ask you to reread this:

MNb wrote on 10/23/08 at 00:53:43:


So I am not sure at whom your repeated ironic remark that "1...e5 is less theoretical than 1...c6" is directed at. As far as I am aware nobody in this thread (or even outside) has stated something like that. I cannot help thinking of Don Quichote.

RE: "So there appears to be a consensus that Black can have a Petroff repertoire and reasonably avoid the Scotch."

and "I am not certain that 3...Bb4+ is so bad. "

These sort of lines are part of the "Anti-Scotch" stuff I mentioned in my original post. They are "playable" or "reasonable" alternatives, but I just don't think they are as good.  In fact, I think they're demonstrably inferior to the Scotch mainlines. 
They are playable and not bad moves; just not the best moves.

For example, while 3...Bc5 is fine, it is less flexible than the rather more natural 3...Nc6.  Besides, it is still going into a Scotch after 4.Nxd4 since I would definitely go 4...Nc6 here (and if 5.Nxc6 Qf6!). 

By the way:
3...Bc5   scores 36.3%  
3...Nc6   scores 45.6%  

You can see that Black scores much better with ...Nc6 than 3...Bc5.  This doesn't prove anything, of course, but I think it helps reinforce what I was saying.  

So, as I first mentioned, if you play 1...e5 (even if you are aiming for a Petroff) you will need some Anti-Scotch, Anti-Two Knights stuff (unless you go for the mainlines).  And since we were discussing "avoiding" theory, I assumed the original poster would rather avoid the mainlines. 


RE: "I am less impressed by the second move order, since 3...Nxe4 4.Nc3 Nc6 is just fine for Black. "

I only gave 3...Nxe4 4.Nc3 since its a popular choice. Apparently, I shouldn't have.
Sorry for any confusion, but as was said "Of course 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bc4 Nf6 is a Two Knights" .  
Which was what I was referring to.  

I was merely pointing out that I didn't believe in the 3...Nxe4 lines.
The main point was that you must either allow the Two Knights or work out your "Anti-Two Knights" theory, since you could face it OTB.

When you play for the Petroff, you can still have to face the Scotch and Two Knights.  If you avoid them, you need anti-  lines.
I think we can agree to that now.

I faced both the Scotch and the Two Knights at various times even when aiming for the Petroff.   There are playable side lines which I referred to before, but I think these lines are demonstrably inferior.  However, if you do play them, you've got the "anti-Scotch" and "anti-Two Knights" stuff from the  first post.

Anyway, I'll step aside now since the original point of this thread has been met.  Apparently he decided that 1...e5 was less theoretical than 1...c6, and the Petroff is the way to play for the win (instead of the solid Caro-Kann).

So, there is no use going on about this trivial move order stuff anymore.

Cheers,
Nietzsche

SWJediknight wrote on 11/04/08 at 19:27:00:


Imo Black strongly should consider playing 4.Bc4 d6 and 4.c3 dxc3 5.Nxc3 d6 iso ...Nc6. It often allows Black to castle one move earlier, which might take a sting out of White's attacking ideas.