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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Looking for a new opening against e4 (Read 72909 times)
kylemeister
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #80 - 11/03/08 at 18:26:09
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MNb wrote on 11/01/08 at 20:06:33:
Regarding 5...b5 I am curious if GM Stellwagen has concrete lines in mind. I have.


I notice that Beliavsky and Mikhalchischin thought that 5...b5 6. Bf1 Nd4 7. c3 Nxd5 8. Ne4 Ne6 (instead of the Berliner stuff) should lead to equality.  Hmm.
  
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MNb
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #79 - 11/03/08 at 18:13:28
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Markovich wrote on 11/03/08 at 14:43:04:
all the openings that are any good are theoretical.


1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 Ne7 idea 4...d5 and 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.c3 Nge7 are good and non-theoretical. Further I agree completely.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #78 - 11/03/08 at 14:43:04
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Nietzsche, 

If you play the Petroff, you don't have to play the Two Knights or the Scotch.  Also, If you play the Modern Defense to the King's Gambit, which is completely adequate, you hardly need to keep "pages and pages" of notes.  The black side of the Vienna doesn't require all sorts of notes, so far as I'm aware.  The Danish can very simply be declined, where Black has a very solid variation, the well-known one with ...Bg4, ...Bb4 and eventually ...Qc4.  And the Vienna, since when did that require reams of notes?  So this part of you post, I really do not get.

More fundamentally, I think that the pursuit of a "non-theoretical" system is anti-chess.  Chess is theoretical.  The endings are theoretical, for crying out loud; all the openings that are any good are theoretical.  I agree that no one should play the Petroff with the idea of avoiding theory, but the same is true of the Caro.
« Last Edit: 11/03/08 at 16:54:28 by Markovich »  

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Nietzsche
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #77 - 11/03/08 at 04:08:24
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RE: In the Petroff, "5.Nc3 Nxc3 6.dxc3 Be7 7.Bf4 (7.Be3) Nc6 8.Qd2 Be6 9.0-0-0 Bxa2 Kleijn-Van Delft, NEDchT 2008 and Black attacks."

Actually, I think White can neutralize the initiative fairly quickly and end up slightly better. 
Not to mention he can avoid it in several ways and still retain a small edge.

You might want to check out some of my analysis of this ...Bxa2 idea in the e4-e5 Forum:
http://www.chesspub.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1222349772

I also wanted to throw in that I recently switched from the Petroff to the Caro-Kann.  
It reminds of the stock market where one guy buys a certain stock because he thinks its the perfect time and the best stock for the money, while the other guy is thinking "Man, I have GOT to sell this awful stock right now!"   Smiley


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p.s. -- If someone asked me for a non-theoretical opening to play for a win (because they already have a solid opening).... I would never say the Petroff.  It has loads of "mainline" theory to learn (since many top players use it) and loads of white sidelines you need to cover if you play 1...e5.  Believe me, I have notebooks full of anti-King's Gambit, Anti-Danish, Anti-Scotch, Anti-Two Knights stuff to prove it!   And while its super-solid I don't think it offers more winning chances than the Caro-Kann.  In fact, it probably offers less in the mainlines.  I like the Petroff, but I don't think it fits the request at all.
  

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MNb
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #76 - 11/02/08 at 11:05:30
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Just play this and replace the lines that make you suffer.
  

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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #75 - 11/02/08 at 06:57:00
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MagicTrick wrote on 11/01/08 at 23:00:58:
I have a similar question of my own: I don't want to change my repertoire completely, but rather include another line against e4, so I can avoid some nasty lines where I know that my opponents are better prepared than I am. My current repertoire against e4 is:
1...e5
-2.f4 (I play it myself) d5
3.ed c6 or ed, depending on my mood
-2.Nc3 Nf6
--3.Bc4 Nc6
--3.f4 d5 mainline, although I haven't come round to studying it properly yet
-2.Bc4 Nf6
--3.Nc3 (see 2.Nc3)
--3.Nf3 Nc6, leading to TKD
--3.d3 Nc6 and 4...Bb4-again, something which I have to look at
-2.Nf3 Nc6
--3.Bb5 f5, with Davies' and Radjabov's help
--3.Bc4 Nf6
---4.Ng5 Bc5
---4.d4 ed and 5...Ne4 if white castles
---4.d3 Be7
--3.d4 ed
---4.Nd4 Qh4
---4.c3 d5 (against 2.d4, too)
--3.Nc3 Nf6 and 4...Nd4

Now, I'd be delighted to hear some opinions!

An interesting choice based on mainly tactical thoughts or the method "If you play this, I play that". It will take a long time to memorize important lines - and somehow there will be no other way than to memorize them, cause you cant find all the tactical tricks on the board. My own repertoire against e4 some ten years ago is a look-a-like of yours, nowadays I changed to a stragetical approach. This means more basic understanding and less learning by heart - there is also no choice becoming older an older  Grin But I still have enough bite in my repertoire. Concerning my own experience I would recommend to you to start incorporating stragetical lines - e.g. 3...Bc5 against the Ruy, the "Mieses Variation" against the Scotch and 3...Bc5 against Bc4 - the "real" Italian Game. You may not have so much quick wins (but also not losses!) with these variations, but in the long term easily outplay weaker opponents with your stragetical based weapons.
  
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #74 - 11/02/08 at 03:36:10
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MagicTrick wrote on 11/01/08 at 23:00:58:
I have a similar question of my own: I don't want to change my repertoire completely, but rather include another line against e4, so I can avoid some nasty lines where I know that my opponents are better prepared than I am. My current repertoire against e4 is:
1...e5
-2.f4 (I play it myself) d5
3.ed c6 or ed, depending on my mood
-2.Nc3 Nf6
--3.Bc4 Nc6
--3.f4 d5 mainline, although I haven't come round to studying it properly yet
-2.Bc4 Nf6
--3.Nc3 (see 2.Nc3)
--3.Nf3 Nc6, leading to TKD
--3.d3 Nc6 and 4...Bb4-again, something which I have to look at
-2.Nf3 Nc6
--3.Bb5 f5, with Davies' and Radjabov's help
--3.Bc4 Nf6
---4.Ng5 Bc5
---4.d4 ed and 5...Ne4 if white castles
---4.d3 Be7
--3.d4 ed
---4.Nd4 Qh4
---4.c3 d5 (against 2.d4, too)
--3.Nc3 Nf6 and 4...Nd4

Now, I'd be delighted to hear some opinions!


Mostly appears sensible and reliable. 
Traxler/Wilkes Barre is wild but will be a lot of fun for you. Cannot understand why it is not played more. 

I warn against Qh4 versus Scotch however. That will result in  suffering and a fair few early baths.
  If you want (comparatively) low maintenance line, 4...Bb4+ is worth a look. See old Miles games, an SOS article and games of (iirc) Stefanova among others.
Gd luck.
  
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #73 - 11/01/08 at 23:00:58
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I have a similar question of my own: I don't want to change my repertoire completely, but rather include another line against e4, so I can avoid some nasty lines where I know that my opponents are better prepared than I am. My current repertoire against e4 is:
1...e5
-2.f4 (I play it myself) d5
3.ed c6 or ed, depending on my mood
-2.Nc3 Nf6
--3.Bc4 Nc6
--3.f4 d5 mainline, although I haven't come round to studying it properly yet
-2.Bc4 Nf6
--3.Nc3 (see 2.Nc3)
--3.Nf3 Nc6, leading to TKD
--3.d3 Nc6 and 4...Bb4-again, something which I have to look at
-2.Nf3 Nc6
--3.Bb5 f5, with Davies' and Radjabov's help
--3.Bc4 Nf6
---4.Ng5 Bc5
---4.d4 ed and 5...Ne4 if white castles
---4.d3 Be7
--3.d4 ed
---4.Nd4 Qh4
---4.c3 d5 (against 2.d4, too)
--3.Nc3 Nf6 and 4...Nd4

Now, I'd be delighted to hear some opinions!
  
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #72 - 11/01/08 at 22:15:22
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Markovich wrote on 11/01/08 at 01:29:41:
exigentsky wrote on 10/31/08 at 19:11:40:
I'm 1800 and have not played e5 in a tournament game. Although, I've tried it a bit in blitz and have played against it. The same goes for the QGD. Am I slowing down my potential progress? Should I still go back and play e5?

Yes, you should.  And against 1.d4 and everything else, play the Tarrasch.  As I said before, when you can sometimes scalp chess masters in open positions, only then is it time to think about diversifying.  

My opinion.


Thanks, I'll try that. Although, I feel that my lack of knowledge and experience will cost me 50-100 ELO rating-wise. Is it enough to play e5 and the Tarrasch (or the QGA instead?) online in CC (chess.com) and in live chess (FICS)? If so, what time control would you recommend for live chess to get a balance between a good quantity of games and reasonable quality? Also, should I get any books on the Open Games or Tarrasch/(QGA?)?

BTW: Do you still recommend this type of Black repertoire even for a mainly 1. e4 player like me? I mean, if I get open games as White am I not getting the same experience?
« Last Edit: 11/01/08 at 23:58:04 by exigentsky »  
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #71 - 11/01/08 at 21:06:32
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Unfortunately it's an introductory sort of comment, in SOS #9.  He is basically writing there about 5...Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dc bc 8. Bd3, which he has played a couple of times (e.g. against L'Ami in that computer-aided Two Knights match).  He thinks that is "by no means worse than 8. Be2" (or similar words), and seems to think it should lead to equality with best play.
  
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #70 - 11/01/08 at 20:06:33
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kylemeister wrote on 11/01/08 at 19:32:18:
1. d4 d5 2. c4 dc 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e4?  Really?

Also, regarding 5...b5 in the Two Knights, I notice that your countryman Stellwagen recently wrote that it "is considered inferior, with good reason" (or words very close to that).


S**t, again a typo. I have corrected it. Regarding 5...b5 I am curious if GM Stellwagen has concrete lines in mind. I have.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #69 - 11/01/08 at 19:32:18
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1. d4 d5 2. c4 dc 3. Nf3 Nf6 4. e4?  Really?

Also, regarding 5...b5 in the Two Knights, I notice that your countryman Stellwagen recently wrote that it "is considered inferior, with good reason" (or words very close to that).
  
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MNb
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #68 - 11/01/08 at 09:09:55
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up and comer wrote on 10/31/08 at 20:47:19:
I'm not against playing something different against d4, but I've had more fun with the KID then any other opening against it.


No reason to abandon the KID. I asked it because you might reconsider your white repertoire iso switching from the Caro-Kann to the Open Games. Unlike Markovich - but I haste myself to say that he and TN are much stronger than me - I think a modest diversification actually can help you, as long as there are enough lines in your repertoire which require play in Morphy-style.

After 1.d4 d5 there are, provided that Black plays ...dxc4 at some stage, quite a few interesting gambits available. Eg 1.d4 d5 2.c4 dxc4 3.Nf3 (3.e4 is reminiscent of the Open Games as well) Nf6 (a6 4.e4) 4.Nc3 is not less sharp or sound than the sharpest KG or Evans Gambit. At the other side of the spectrum there is the QGD Exchange Variation with the minority attack, recommended by no one less than Euwe. As far as I know he wrote the first repertoire book ever; several of his recommendations were out of fashion then but popular amongst the very best now (including the Petrov). Anyhow, the minority attack is a very straightforward strategy. It will teach you planning, consequently executing your plan and flexibly adapting/changing it when your opponent does no cooperate.
What you should avoid for the time being is all those complex systems with there hidden strategical points, deep prophylactic thinking and multiplanning.
« Last Edit: 11/01/08 at 20:07:53 by MNb »  

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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #67 - 11/01/08 at 02:24:21
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Markovich wrote on 11/01/08 at 01:29:41:
exigentsky wrote on 10/31/08 at 19:11:40:
I'm 1800 and have not played e5 in a tournament game. Although, I've tried it a bit in blitz and have played against it. The same goes for the QGD. Am I slowing down my potential progress? Should I still go back and play e5?

Yes, you should.  And against 1.d4 and everything else, play the Tarrasch.  As I said before, when you can sometimes scalp chess masters in open positions, only then is it time to think about diversifying. 
My opinion.


I fully concur.

Toppy Smiley
  

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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #66 - 11/01/08 at 01:29:41
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exigentsky wrote on 10/31/08 at 19:11:40:
I'm 1800 and have not played e5 in a tournament game. Although, I've tried it a bit in blitz and have played against it. The same goes for the QGD. Am I slowing down my potential progress? Should I still go back and play e5?

Yes, you should.  And against 1.d4 and everything else, play the Tarrasch.  As I said before, when you can sometimes scalp chess masters in open positions, only then is it time to think about diversifying.   

My opinion.
  

The Great Oz has spoken!
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