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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Looking for a new opening against e4 (Read 72920 times)
exigentsky
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #95 - 11/04/08 at 18:44:52
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Yeah, I feel 30 min would be great too but it's not really so practical on most internet sites. Many people just fool around and play blitz online (even 1 0 or garbage like that). 15 minutes is probably the best balance I can go for (most of the time) unless I want to wait incessantly. 

Anyway, I've already taken your recommendations in blitz and I think I'm improving. Although, many people play the Giuoco Piano and I wonder if you consider this educational enough. The Two Knights seems more tactical and open but I don't really want to delve too deeply into critical theory. Also, what about the Ruy Lopez? That's pretty closed but I  feel a lot can be learned. I was considering the Archangel. What do you recommend as the most educational variation, if any in particular? Finally, do you think I can try the QGA instead of the Tarrasch and get the same benefits? It seems more solid. Thanks again.
  
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kylemeister
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #94 - 11/04/08 at 18:09:33
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Regarding 1. e4 e5 2. d4 ed 3. Nf3, I had the impression that 3...Bc5 has a good reputation (and need not transpose, from Black's viewpoint, to a Scotch or Two Knights).
  
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Markovich
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #93 - 11/04/08 at 17:58:50
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exigentsky wrote on 11/01/08 at 22:15:22:
Markovich wrote on 11/01/08 at 01:29:41:
exigentsky wrote on 10/31/08 at 19:11:40:
I'm 1800 and have not played e5 in a tournament game. Although, I've tried it a bit in blitz and have played against it. The same goes for the QGD. Am I slowing down my potential progress? Should I still go back and play e5?

Yes, you should.  And against 1.d4 and everything else, play the Tarrasch.  As I said before, when you can sometimes scalp chess masters in open positions, only then is it time to think about diversifying.  

My opinion.


Thanks, I'll try that. Although, I feel that my lack of knowledge and experience will cost me 50-100 ELO rating-wise. Is it enough to play e5 and the Tarrasch (or the QGA instead?) online in CC (chess.com) and in live chess (FICS)? If so, what time control would you recommend for live chess to get a balance between a good quantity of games and reasonable quality? Also, should I get any books on the Open Games or Tarrasch/(QGA?)?

BTW: Do you still recommend this type of Black repertoire even for a mainly 1. e4 player like me? I mean, if I get open games as White am I not getting the same experience?


I can't recommend a time control on the internet since I don't play much chess this way.  But in general I think that game-30 is about the fastest time limit for good general training games.  Anything less is mainly tactics training, I opine.

Of course you get some experience playing open systems with the White pieces, but you get twice as much if you also play them with the Black pieces!  I don't think that anyone who, as I said, can't sometimes knock of masters playing open chess should be doing anything other than trying to improve his play in open positions.  I was happy to obtain the second of Toppy, a much stronger player than I, on that point.  Of course, you're not always going to get an open position even playing 1...e5, but at least it's a reasonable way to strive for that type of play.
  

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Markovich
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #92 - 11/04/08 at 17:46:23
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Nietsche,

I take your point about 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3, which I had overlooked, but I am not certain that 3...Bb4+ is so bad.  Please direct me to the thread where you criticise this move; if I were a Petroff player I would look at it pretty hard.  Further Black can have a Petroff (an unfashionable one, I admit) with 3...Nf6.  Of course 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 Nc6 4.Bc4 Nf6 is a Two Knights, but there is not really a vast mountain of theory there, not if Black eschews the Max, anyway.

I am less impressed by the second move order, since 3...Nxe4 4.Nc3 Nc6 is just fine for Black.  Yes, White can try 5.0-0 but this gambit is hardly terrifying.

You and I clearly differ about how to defend the King's Gambit.  I consider the Modern to be the simplest and also the best way to go. Maybe that's why I think that the King's Gambit is indeed easy to meet. 

Lastly, concerning the Vienna, I think you're straining a bit with your 3.g3 argument.  It's a game of chess, but highly theoretical it is not.


  

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exigentsky
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #91 - 11/04/08 at 16:51:03
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?
  
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Bibs
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #90 - 11/04/08 at 10:00:46
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exi,
no, you are not.
  
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exigentsky
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #89 - 11/04/08 at 07:41:02
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Markovich, I'd appreciate if you'd consider my previous questions. Thanks in advance.
  
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Nietzsche
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #88 - 11/04/08 at 01:48:53
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RE:"So imo your point is somewhat .... pointless. "

Thanks.  

So, not only did I learn that I don't face the Scotch (or need an anti-scotch line) but the now the Petroff is NOT a solid way to meet 1.e4.

The Petroff is a good choice for someone looking for a dynamic, counter-attacking "fight for the full point", rather than a solid, positional defense (like the Caro-Kann). 

And a good suggestion for a "non-theoretical" defense to 1.e4 is 1...e5.

Got it.
Sorry for the pointless posting... Lips Sealed
« Last Edit: 11/04/08 at 06:51:08 by Nietzsche »  

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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #87 - 11/03/08 at 23:35:06
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thank you all for the advice.
  

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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #86 - 11/03/08 at 23:34:08
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Well I have come to a decision. I have decided that I will learn how to play 1...e5 theory and all. I figure that I will restudy the caro-kann, the KID, most of the common black responses to d4, study the endgame, and possibly reread the amateurs mind before I begin to study 1..e5, so since all of that will be out of the way, I will be able to devote myself to completely learning how to play 1. e4 e5 as white or black. However I don't think I will be replacing the caro-kann as my main response to 1.e4 unless I find that I am getting better results, or am having more fun with e5, than c6. That doesn't mean that I wont be using e5, I just wont use it quite as much as the c-k unless it meets the previous conditions I set forth.
  

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MNb
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #85 - 11/03/08 at 23:24:30
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Nietzsche wrote on 11/03/08 at 21:07:51:

That was my point:  Who picks up the Petroff to avoid a solid, positional defense to 1.e4?  It's ridiculous!


Not if you intend to play it in the spirit of Frank Marshall.

Btw 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.Bc4 Nxe4 4.Nc3 Nc6 and 4...Nxc3) are demonstrably superior to 3...Nc6. In my overview I have hinted at the right way(s) to play for Black; one line you can learn within 5 minutes, the other in 10.
I don't know how long that game Conquest-Van der Sterren will take, the expression reams of theory is a big exaggeration.

So imo your point is somewhat .... pointless.
  

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Nietzsche
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #84 - 11/03/08 at 21:07:51
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RE:  "I agree that no one should play the Petroff with the idea of avoiding theory, but the same is true of the Caro. "

I completely concur.  
But I hope you agree that going from the Caro-Kann -to- the Petroff is hardly a good way to avoid theory!
Also the Petroff is hardly less solid and more double-edged  (which was the original request).  

1..c6 is certainly less theoretical than 1...e5, and the Caro is probably more double-edged than the Petroff.  But definitely not the other way round.  

That was my point:  Who picks up the Petroff to avoid a solid, positional defense to 1.e4?  It's ridiculous!


Nietzsche

p.s. - Also I'd rather not scold someone (or refuse to help them) for wanting to play something other than 1...e5.  I think the request is reasonable.
  

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Nietzsche
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #83 - 11/03/08 at 20:24:03
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Markovich:  "If you play the Petroff, you don't have to play the Two Knights or the Scotch."

Oh really? 
Were you thinking I just threw them in there for fun? Huh

1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.Nf3 ...
And now 3... Nc6 transposes into the Scotch while ...Bb4 is an Anti-Scotch.  I wrote about this exact issue in another thread. 
 I don't think the anti-scotch 3...Bb4 is nearly as good, so I played 3...Nc6 and dealt with the Scotch mainlines. 

1.e4 e5 2.Bc4 Nf6 3.Nf3 Nc6 is a Two Knights.  Black can, of course, play something else on move 3 (like 3...Nxe4 4.Nc3). 
But I don't believe in it.  So, I'm stuck with the Two Knights.  

So, while a Petroff player doesn't have to deal with them, I don't think he has anything better than transposing.

Therefore, I do have to play against them;  unfortunately Undecided

RE:  "And the Vienna, since when did that require reams of notes?"

I guess since players like Shirov, Anand, and Morozevich started making the case for 3.g3!? 
I think its actually a much better opening than its reputation. 
White often gets a slight pull without weakening himself very much.  I don't think Black gets an easy ride at all.
In order to try to find a precise route to equality, I looked at 3...d5 and ended up with lots of notes.  
BTW, I think black is doing OK in these lines, but I couldn't find a means of equalizing by force.

As for meeting the King's Gambit, I'm sure there are several "adequate" ways of meeting it that avoid a lot of theory, but I wanted something more than that. Hence the 'pages and pages' which I don't think is so odd.  Marin, for example, has a rather sizable chapter on it because, let's be honest, 2.f4 is not all that easy to meet.  Particularly since the White side still has several "heroes" defending its honor and making our life more complicated.


Hopefully that clarifies my post a bit,
Nietzsche

p.s. - If "all the good openings are theoretical", then don't you need 'pages' of notes to combat such openings?  You therefore seem to think the Vienna, the Kings Gambit, and the Danish are all not good openings; since such effort isn't required.   Is this true?
« Last Edit: 11/03/08 at 21:29:56 by Nietzsche »  

"By some ardent enthusiasts Chess has been elevated into a science or an art. It is neither; but its principal characteristic seems to be what human nature mostly delights in - a fight." - Em. Lasker
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #82 - 11/03/08 at 20:07:59
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MNb wrote on 11/03/08 at 18:47:19:
That has been my firm opinion since 25 years or so!

W: Pekin, Tolgay (2201) (Anatolian Sun )
B: MNb (2015) (CHESSPUBLISHING.COM)
CL/2007/FT1 board 4
Start date 1 September 2007

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 b5 6.Bf1 Nd4 7.c3 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bxd7+ Qxd7 11.O-O Be7 12.d4 exd4 13.cxd4 O-O 14.Nbc3 Rad8 15.Re1 Nxc3 16.bxc3 c5 17.d5 Qxd5 18.Qxd5 Rxd5 19.Rb1 Rfd8 20.g4 g6 21.Rb7 R5d7 22.Rxd7 Rxd7 23.Kg2 c4 24.Ba3 Kf8 25.Bxe7+ Kxe7 26.g5 Rd3 27.f3 Nf4+ 28.Kg3 Nd5 29.Nd2+ Kd6 30.Nxc4+ Kc5 31.Ne5 Rxc3 32.Nxf7 Ra3 33.Ne5 Rxa2 34.Nd7+ Kd6 35.Nf8 draw.

Indeed an effortless draw with Black! I think White should try something restrained at move 12 and play for Ng3, d3, Re1, which may look dangerous but is more in the "material" spirit. 12.d4 leads to simple equality or in best case a minuscle plus for White.
  
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MNb
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Re: Looking for a new opening against e4
Reply #81 - 11/03/08 at 18:47:19
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That has been my firm opinion since 25 years or so!

W: Pekin, Tolgay (2201) (Anatolian Sun )
B: MNb (2015) (CHESSPUBLISHING.COM)
CL/2007/FT1 board 4
Start date 1 September 2007

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Ng5 d5 5.exd5 b5 6.Bf1 Nd4 7.c3 Nxd5 8.Ne4 Ne6 9.Bxb5+ Bd7 10.Bxd7+ Qxd7 11.O-O Be7 12.d4 exd4 13.cxd4 O-O 14.Nbc3 Rad8 15.Re1 Nxc3 16.bxc3 c5 17.d5 Qxd5 18.Qxd5 Rxd5 19.Rb1 Rfd8 20.g4 g6 21.Rb7 R5d7 22.Rxd7 Rxd7 23.Kg2 c4 24.Ba3 Kf8 25.Bxe7+ Kxe7 26.g5 Rd3 27.f3 Nf4+ 28.Kg3 Nd5 29.Nd2+ Kd6 30.Nxc4+ Kc5 31.Ne5 Rxc3 32.Nxf7 Ra3 33.Ne5 Rxa2 34.Nd7+ Kd6 35.Nf8 draw.
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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