kylemeister wrote on 11/06/08 at 21:56:11:


I'd have to agree with this.

A year and a half or so ago I switched to the g3 KID after a disastrous spell trying to make a go of 1. Nf3 Nf6 2. c4 g6 3. b4 as recommended by Davies and Dunnington in their books on the Reti.  I came damn near achieving a minus rating performance with that line.

My practical results with the g3 KID have been very encouraging but I don't think that's because it leads to highly favourable positions in theory.

SniperOnG7 wrote on 11/06/08 at 21:12:50:


Working with FM Rensch a bit when I was his team-mate showed me the KID Fianchetto stuff is very, very good for white. Assuming you can get the main lines.

As far as I know the Keres is 1. c4 e5 2. Nc3 Nf6 3. g3 c6.  Black's chances after 1. c4 e5 2. g3 Nf6 (2...c6 is also possible) 3. Bg2 c6 are apparently better -- as in = as opposed to +=.

ANDREW BRETT wrote on 11/06/08 at 11:54:04:


So much for 1.c4.  

Quote:


Maybe I'll investigate this a tad more. Afterall, given how relatively rare the Reti is, I doubt most people will be seriously prepared in the line, and I suppose extra-tempo Benonis are decent. I'll just need to learn it.

It's certainly easier to learn the 2...dxc4 and 2...d4 than the myriad of English variations.

Quote:


Before the Openings According to Kramnik series ever existed I was already using the repetoire involving 1.Nf3 d5 2.d4. However, like I said above, it's tiring keeping track of Slav/Semi-Slav theory, so I just want to find a way to keep the option of a Gurevich system open.

I play main line KID, and am 100% comfortable in it. Against low rateds I mostly prefer 7.Be3, and 9.Nd2 against high rateds. 

I sincerely do not believe there is any reason to try and keep the KID with an English flavor, but that's just me.

I've always advocated openings where you have the ability to switch lines within your particular system. Hence I think that it should be easily possible to play 1c4 and 1 nf3. 

Of concern to me is that 2g3 is so highly rated- on this site we've seen a strong line for black (albeit equalising line) - go check out the pdf files for the details.

1Nf3 d5 2 c4 d4 is interesting 3 b4 and 4 e3 leads to very wild play. But the reality is 2 d4 is best but 2 b3 leads to creative play - I think Kortchnoi tried this a few times possibly against Bacrot.

2 g3 v the english works best against Bc5 stuff but the 4 knights is strong line, as is 5 Rb1 and 5 e3- most black players don't know how to play that. Donaldson and Carsten advocate the main line with 3 g3 albeit via Nf3 move order .

As others have stated you need an anti KID line- not sure what is most English like? Anyone got any ideas.

It was only very recently that I moved from a pure English 1. c4 order to 1. Nf3, the reason merely being to expand the types of positions I get towards those obtained in 1.d4 mainlines (from which I first jumped to the English) and more practice in the Catalan. 

Personally, I am quite comfortable with the position after 1. c4 e5 2. g3 even if they are objectively equal. White is very flexible and his most powerful weapon is to choose from the arsenal of setups the one most to his liking. Imho, the biggest problem with black at many places is the lack of a further middlegame goal after the initial setup is complete. This can become especially pronounced if white wisely wields his flexibility to his full advantage. 

Anyways if you want to pick it up, I suggest to look at the Reversed Dragon first. It was this variation that first attracted me to the English (as I was an enthousiastic Dragoneer at the time  ) but do not be fooled! The extra move means that there should be no sharp attacks (unless black is daft). Both sides' goal is to strategically dominate each other, which is no easy thing to do for black but white cannot just stroll in and obtain an advantage either if black knows what to do. If black is careless though, that extra tempo means that white can carry out the objectives of the Classical Dragon that much faster and more lethal. 

Another key question is what are you going to do if black goes for the KID setup? You don't have to learn the Botvinnik. In fact there are four options all together: 
   1. Botvinnik
   2. Reversed Closed Sicilian 1: Nf3, d3 setup
   3. Reversed Closed Sicilian 2: Nge2, e3 setup
   4. Transpose to KID Fianchetto variation. 
The decision is yours. 

The next setup consists of black going for the d5, e5, f5 structure. Often the position becomes quite closed and strategic, giving the game a sort of Reversed French structure with a white fianchetto. 

Black can also play a c6 somewhere after 1...e5, aiming for a subsequent ...d5 push. Again the choice is yours. You can allow black to go into another Reversed French. You can force black to have an IQP, although at expense of early loss of time with your queen. If I remember correctly, this is called the Keres Variation (I think he played the black side of this IQP setup). 

Off the top of my head, the final type of position is when black goes for ...e5 ...Nf6 ...Nc6 ...Bc5. This is one of the places where the delayed Nf3 really shine. With an e3 Nge2 setup, there is high likelihood of BOTH black's bishop being left to look very silly. Black's Bc5 is most often pushed back by d2-d4 once everything else in white's camp is prepared, and it remains for the rest of the game sidelined on the queenside against granite. Black's other bishop does not have that many good places either: Be6 falls for the simple (but frequent) trick of d2-d4 (attacking Bc5) then d4-d5 fork. Bg4 is easily pushed back with h3. And if black retreats to Bh5, then a subsequent g4, d4 (attacking Bc5 and decreasing its influence down the diagonal), f4 (with f5 coming up) hems the bishop in on g6 like his buddy on the queenside. With this position, white has a commanding amount of space, and is able to carry out operations on all three sectors of the board. The kingside coupled with in the centre is best here though. Eg getting the dark squared bishop onto the h4-d8 diagonal with Nd5 pin Nf6 to black's queen...resulting in an encore in the style of 1919 Winter vs Capablanca. If black actually manages to develop Bc8 properly, white can still go for Nd5 whenever, since doubled d-pawns control a lot of squares and are almost impossible to attack. Meanwhile white gets the c-file against black's backward c-pawn. 

As a final note, I have found that 1. c4 e5 2. g3 is one of those positions where you can unleash your creativity. Versing many of black's setups that I have mentioned abov, I have made up several lines myself at places where I do not want to enter mainlines (even though English mainlines are already relatively backwater). 

The only downside that I see (and which I share with you) is the noticeable decrease in the number of games you can play the Catalan.

winawer77 wrote on 11/05/08 at 22:05:39:


The intent behind 1.c4 is to actually follow with 2.Nf3 if allowed, at least as I intend to use it. However, I'm looking to specifically cut down on the Slav/Semi-Slav, and I can't get the Gurevich system after 1...d5 unless I play 2.c4.

So it is either play 1.c4 and deal with ...e5, or play 2.c4 and deal with ...d4/dxc4.

Thanks for the comments.