Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Polugaevsky Najdorf (Read 12832 times)
MatrixX
Junior Member
**
Offline


carpe diem!

Posts: 66
Joined: 02/21/09
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #24 - 02/22/09 at 16:31:14
Post Tools
yeah of course not! Smiley but some hints would be great, so then i can have a look at them. I must admit that so far, i have not much experience and knowlegde to the 12.Qd3 Variation, but that can change very fast and who knows... Smiley
  

FIDE ELO: 2274, 19 years old
student of mathematics and economics, working as chess-trainer, especially in openings!
http://www.chess.com/coach/christoph-tiemann
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
jejega
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 77
Location: london
Joined: 07/14/08
Gender: Male
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #23 - 02/22/09 at 16:25:23
Post Tools
I can't give you all my secrets, my friend Smiley Smiley Smiley
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MatrixX
Junior Member
**
Offline


carpe diem!

Posts: 66
Joined: 02/21/09
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #22 - 02/22/09 at 16:18:55
Post Tools
yeah of course i read them through Wink sometimes really interesting stuff.
Ok, so let us make the gxf6 fully playable for black!
By the way, how leads Qxf6 to a draw? *very interested*
  

FIDE ELO: 2274, 19 years old
student of mathematics and economics, working as chess-trainer, especially in openings!
http://www.chess.com/coach/christoph-tiemann
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
jejega
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 77
Location: london
Joined: 07/14/08
Gender: Male
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #21 - 02/22/09 at 16:02:16
Post Tools
I hope it can work because 12...Qf6 should lead to a draw. And I don't want a draw after 7...b5. Did you have a look at the other 2 topics on the Polu I tried to bring them forward for you to read?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MatrixX
Junior Member
**
Offline


carpe diem!

Posts: 66
Joined: 02/21/09
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #20 - 02/22/09 at 15:14:53
Post Tools
ok, sounds interesting, but are you convinced, that 12...gxf6 can work for black? If yes, then i would lovely join the analyze of it for black!
  

FIDE ELO: 2274, 19 years old
student of mathematics and economics, working as chess-trainer, especially in openings!
http://www.chess.com/coach/christoph-tiemann
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
jejega
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 77
Location: london
Joined: 07/14/08
Gender: Male
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #19 - 02/22/09 at 15:08:33
Post Tools
after 13 0-0 I either play 13...Qe5 with an exchange sacrifice or 13...Bh6 but I am still analysing it
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MatrixX
Junior Member
**
Offline


carpe diem!

Posts: 66
Joined: 02/21/09
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #18 - 02/22/09 at 14:52:40
Post Tools
great game, black was increasing his advantage move by move! should give more games like this one ;P
so 15...Qc7!? like a decent opportunity, but what do you do after 12.Qd3 as now after Ra7 white has 13.Ne4 Qe5 14.Nf3 and black is forced to take on b2, Qc7 now doesnt works, as blacks rook is still on a7
i think you posted sometimes ago the opportunity 12...gxf6 after 12.Qd3, but at the moment your interesting exchange sacrifice after Qf3 dont convinces me 100% do you have any further analyzes at the critical position after 13.Qf3 Qh4+ 14.g3 Qxd4 15.Qxa8 Qb6 16.0-0-0 Bg7
and how do you play after the possibly strongest reply to gxf6, 13.0-0 
at the moment i didnt spend a lot of time at this position, i just realized that 13...f5 looses to Nxf5!
  

FIDE ELO: 2274, 19 years old
student of mathematics and economics, working as chess-trainer, especially in openings!
http://www.chess.com/coach/christoph-tiemann
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
jejega
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 77
Location: london
Joined: 07/14/08
Gender: Male
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #17 - 02/22/09 at 14:32:45
Post Tools
I have a new example of 17 Bd3

[Event "Challenge"]
[Site "Caissa's Web"]
[Date "2009.02.02"]
[White "marouelli"]
[Black "Gladiator"]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "20/720"]
[WhiteELO "2394"]
[BlackELO "2667"]
[ECO "B96"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Variation "Najdorf, Polugayevsky variation"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 b5 8. e5 dxe5
9. fxe5 Qc7 10. exf6 Qe5+ 11. Be2 Qxg5 12. O-O Ra7 13. Qd3 Rd7 14. Ne4 Qe5 15. Nf3
Qc7 16. Qe3 Bb7 17. Bd3 Bxe4 18. Qxe4 gxf6 19. a4 f5 20. Qe2 b4 21. Ne5 Re7 22. Rae1
Bg7 23. Rf3 O-O 24. Rg3 Kh8 25. Nc4 Nd7 26. Qd2 Rd8 27. Qxb4 Nc5 28. Rf3 Red7 29.
Qa3 Rd4 30. a5 Ne4 31. b3 Ng5 32. Rfe3 Rh4 33. g3 Bd4 0-1
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MatrixX
Junior Member
**
Offline


carpe diem!

Posts: 66
Joined: 02/21/09
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #16 - 02/22/09 at 14:24:19
Post Tools
ok, you are right, Rbc1 is very strong and i havent any confidence in blacks position now after 19.a4!.
@ jejega: last night i looked a bit more closly to the position i have given in your sideline after 15...Qc7!? 16.Qe3 Bb7 17.c3! Bxe4 18.fxg7 Bxg7 19.Qxe4 0-0 20.a4 
at first it looks like a simple advantage to white, but the longer you analyse this position the more you get convinced, that this postion might be total equal!! So this 15...Qc7!? might be really a good choice from blacks point of view, also 17.c3 is only move to fight for advantage, everything else, form example Mamedov played 17.Bd3?!, is really NOTHING for white.
  

FIDE ELO: 2274, 19 years old
student of mathematics and economics, working as chess-trainer, especially in openings!
http://www.chess.com/coach/christoph-tiemann
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
jejega
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 77
Location: london
Joined: 07/14/08
Gender: Male
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #15 - 02/22/09 at 11:46:16
Post Tools
After 20...a5 white plays 21 Rbc1! h6 (21...g6 22 Nf3!! Qe4 23 Rc8 Bc8 24 Qe4 Bb7 25 Qa4 Bc5 26 Kh1 Bf3 27 Bf3 0-0 with a much better game for white) 22 Nf3! Qd5 (22...Qe4 23 Rc8 Bc8 24 Qe4 gf 25 Qf4+-) 23 Rc4 +-
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
MatrixX
Junior Member
**
Offline


carpe diem!

Posts: 66
Joined: 02/21/09
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #14 - 02/21/09 at 18:28:48
Post Tools
yeah indeed, 15...Qc7!? looks a bit more solid. I spend smoe time to your game, i think after 17.Kh1?! black is immediatly better, but as you pointed out, 17.c3! looks like a strong alternative. I looked at 17.c3 Bxe4 18.fxg7 Bxg7 19.Qxe4 0-0 and now 20.a4! with += seems to be strong

any further ideas for black so far ?!

in the critical main line there was an interesting game from the swedish youngster Nils Grandelius (now is even IM with his rating jumping towards 2500 ELO). After 19.a4 he played the interesting Novelty Qe5!? and after 20.axb5 there followed a5! from black.

Anybody analyzed yet this game ?!
  

FIDE ELO: 2274, 19 years old
student of mathematics and economics, working as chess-trainer, especially in openings!
http://www.chess.com/coach/christoph-tiemann
Back to top
WWW  
IP Logged
 
jejega
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 77
Location: london
Joined: 07/14/08
Gender: Male
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #13 - 01/06/09 at 10:19:29
Post Tools
Actually I have already made a post about 7...b5. 12...Ra7 must be the only move and I would advise black to play 15...Qc7 where white should be slightly better after 16 Qe3 Bb7 17 c3. Here is an example when playing with Rybka3 in a correspondence tournament .

Event "Challenge"]
[Site "Caissa's Web"]
[Date "2008.09.07"]
[White "pazuzu"]
[Black "Gladiator"]
[Result "0-1"]
[TimeControl "20/720"]
[WhiteELO "2287"]
[BlackELO "2704"]
[ECO "B96"]
[Opening "Sicilian"]
[Variation "Najdorf, Polugayevsky variation"]

1. e4 c5 2. Nf3 d6 3. d4 cxd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nc3 a6 6. Bg5 e6 7. f4 b5 8. e5 dxe5
9. fxe5 Qc7 10. exf6 Qe5+ 11. Be2 Qxg5 12. O-O Ra7 13. Qd3 Rd7 14. Ne4 Qe5 15. Nf3
Qc7 16. Qe3 Bb7 17. Kh1 Bxe4 18. Qxe4 gxf6 19. c3 f5 20. Qe3 Qc5 21. Qf4 Nc6 22.
Rad1 Rg8 23. Rxd7 Kxd7 24. Rd1+ Kc8 25. Nd4 Nxd4 26. Rxd4 Qc6 27. Qf1 Bc5 28. Rh4
Rd8 29. Bf3 Qc7 30. a4 Rd2 31. axb5 Rf2 32. Qe1 Qe5 33. Qd1 axb5 34. Rxh7 Bd6 35.
Qa1 Rxb2 36. g3 Ba3 37. Qd1 Qxc3 38. Rxf7 Rd2 0-1
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #12 - 12/29/08 at 16:11:58
Post Tools
Quote:
Rybka 3 Dynamic thinks that way, me too.

I would be careful - comps have a long term blindness to strategic as well as tactical matters. In this kind of positions the machine has to calculate millions of tactical motives und moves. Somewhere a human will find a way to break through, cause he is really working with ideas and thinking about them (Rybka cant think - she only can compare numbers and make a move based on this numbers). The human then will feed the machine and the machine will "learn" (oh yeah!) that the human move is a crusher. Once the machine has stored the idea in the hash tables it will always come back to it and find a win. Therefore I think working on Ne5 and/or Ng5 will lead to a win for White in this concrete position - it's just a matter of patience and time (OK, I am not sure if I will do it, cause I dont think this position will occur in my OTB games some time coming soon - and if it does, I play Ne5 and win, cause my opponent will not find his only moves). Anyway I think the Polu is like the Botvinnik System in the Semislav one of those endless fascinating variations which come back again and again.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
The French Fan
Junior Member
**
Offline


I Love ChessPublishing!

Posts: 50
Location: Syktyvkar, Russia
Joined: 07/23/08
Gender: Male
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #11 - 12/29/08 at 14:26:12
Post Tools
Matemax wrote on 12/25/08 at 19:17:49:
Quote:
I think Black should have tried 17... Qxa2!?

Thanks for the line - I have two comments:

1) I think White should go for 18.Ne5 or 18.Nfg5 - both moves look promising, but I have to admit I havent found the ultimative crushing line - Black just holds with a series of only moves. I will try to continue my efforts  Smiley

2) If you play Be4 like in your line I am always satisfied with White cause you give away the bishop pair, which is very important for counterplay. It means turning to passive defence - White is never in danger of serious counterplay against g2, also the queenside pawns become weak without the light-squared bishop. As a matter of principal Black should only play this exchange if the house is already burning and no other rescue is in sight

all the best!


Whatever you play as White, the Black tends to survive in the Polugaevsky, at least, Rybka 3 Dynamic thinks that way, me too. The problem, though, is that the Black has to struggle for a tie and that makes me sad. I usually play as Black for a win. Thus, I think 7...Nbd7! is the only line to try as Black, to this end... Or 2...Nf6 Center-Counter but that seems like quite a different story!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Matemax
God Member
*****
Offline


Chesspub gives you strength!

Posts: 1302
Joined: 11/04/07
Re: Polugaevsky Najdorf
Reply #10 - 12/25/08 at 19:17:49
Post Tools
Quote:
I think Black should have tried 17... Qxa2!?

Thanks for the line - I have two comments:

1) I think White should go for 18.Ne5 or 18.Nfg5 - both moves look promising, but I have to admit I havent found the ultimative crushing line - Black just holds with a series of only moves. I will try to continue my efforts  Smiley

2) If you play Be4 like in your line I am always satisfied with White cause you give away the bishop pair, which is very important for counterplay. It means turning to passive defence - White is never in danger of serious counterplay against g2, also the queenside pawns become weak without the light-squared bishop. As a matter of principal Black should only play this exchange if the house is already burning and no other rescue is in sight

all the best!
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: [1] 2 
Topic Tools
Bookmarks: del.icio.us Digg Facebook Google Google+ Linked in reddit StumbleUpon Twitter Yahoo