Gather the same people that tolerate lateness and keep their paychecks from them for an extended period of time with no explanation and see how they react to tardiness then.


I suspect they would be unhappy.




Apply liberally to others.

Bibs its not the same as an appointment. For most people chess is a hobby and they enjoy playing the occasional tournament or league game. Their work and families will always come first. If chess starts going this direction then I predict many people will simply give it up, in fact if this goes through I may just pack it in myself.

Keano wrote on 12/19/08 at 13:16:48:


LOL....next it will be rude to refuse sacrifices.  ........coming to a FIDE rule near you soon. 

Did anyone see my article about FIDE rule changes in the 2009 Chess Companion? Isn't this another idea in the same mold?

drkodos wrote on 12/18/08 at 18:27:01:


Well, I respectfully disagree.  We have a well-established convention in chess for dealing with lateness: it is penalized through the clock.  I fail to see why a new convention is necessary.

Also I really cannot join in your equation of lateness with selfishness, gamesmanship, or whatever.  There is a host of possible reasons for anyone's being late.  We should always be reluctant to make uncharitable assumptions about other people. 

Further I can see a practical difficulty with the new rule in its application to large sections: how can the director be present at any given board where lateness at the first second is to be taken as grounds for forfeit?  What is the director to do if he is summoned to a board and finds both players present, but one of them claims the other was 20 seconds late?

Antillian wrote on 12/18/08 at 18:08:22:



The vast majority of all these other "sports" are also played by working adults with many other commtiments, such as family and demanding jobs.  This does not stop responsible, considerate people from being on time.  Most people that play baseball are not professionals.  There are amateur leagues for eveything from bowling to lawn darts to football and ice hocker.   Are most bicyclists professionals?  Hardly.

Across the board, being late at amateur events results in a forfeit, whether it is an Equestrian event, the Monopoly Championships in Atlantic City, or Nine-ball at the local saloon.  

Self absorption and overimportance of the self cross over any taxonomic barriers with regard to what is and what isn't sport.  

Being late is purely a manifestation of selfish and controlling behavior.  

If a flat tire makes one late, that person was ill prepared to begin with, pehaps giving the chance of a flat tire happening too little concern in their planning.  They need a good course in time management, for sure.  Either way, it is the flat-tire sufferer's responsibilty, not the tournament director, or the opponents who did what they needed to do to arrive on time.

Forfeit.


If the time period between work and start of round is so tight that any little glitch might make one late, then perhaps one needs to realize they should probably not be playing that tournament, despite "what they want."    If chess is so important to any person's, then maybe they should take full responsibility to consider even getting a different job, one that affords them a better schedule to play chess. There are many options available that do not force another human being to sit and wait for the more self absorbed person to arrive.

@Bibs: Chess is more important than "basic manners" to me. A chess game should as far as possible be decided by actual moves played on a board, not by the whims of some FIDE commission (or president). A win by default punishes not only a player and his teammates but also the spectators. Would you really have defaulted Bill Hook's opponent in that Olympiad game? (See Stewart Reuben in the middle of this thread: http://www.ecforum.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=514&start=15)

I have travelled several times to an away match with a 4 hour travel by car and ferry, 6 hours playing session and 4 hours travel back. Now depending on which ferry we caught we might arrive for the games 15 mins. early, or 15 mins. or more late. Surely you agree it would be ridiculous to apply a default rule in this case? Or should we have put in a larger margin to spend even more of our free time to play one game? I say 14 hours was enough.

The only reasonable conclusion is that if 0 mins. is the rule, exceptions (a la "unless the arbiter decides otherwise") must be allowed. As for the elite, I don't really care which players are most punctual either; I care about who plays better moves.