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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) lack of respect among chess players (Read 35851 times)
Hadron
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #67 - 05/02/09 at 23:46:04
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Here is one from the antipodes. My old mate ( and chess coach ) and I used to play for the same club. One of the members of this club suffered from Asperger's Syndrome and one of the myriad of things that club members had to put up with was this persons inability to resign. I can probably hear you balk at this as you read saying this is nothing new. In this case, it was not unusual to see the person concerned defending a King and rook against say King, queen, 2 x bishop, 2x knight and several pawns and taking the time to think with every move! After one particular frustrating game with the person concerned my old mate upon announcing mate put down in his coffee, rose from the board and stared his opponent down, announcing in loud enough voice to be heard by all ( in his sizable welsh accent) “ Enough!, if you are not going to resign, you will learn! I am going to mate you with a pawn next we meet!”...Next time they met, he did exactly that and the said member concerned began resigning lost games from that point. 
While I am at it, my thoughts on respect. For what it is worth, I am of the opinion that certain terms in chess are often misused such as what is ‘sound’ and what is ‘playable’ and I think in the context that a lot of the posters in this thread have tried to convey with their anecdotes there is a confusion between what is respect and what is good or even acceptable manners. I do accept that maybe there is a fine line between the two but I do believe that that fine line is discernable. Respect or the lack of it, is a matter of personally subjectivity where as simple manners are set out by a decree of norms in the society (in this case, chess society) that you move in. The fine line comes with if you want your opponents poor manners to influence any subjectivity in the matter? In that case, then the advice of ignoring it and get on winning the game is probably the best and its only when you let said poor manners influence you to any degree then there is any chance, no matter how slim, you may lose. One final comment, I also find that the personal subjectivity (in regards to chess) as far as what constitutes ‘respect’ (in my opinion), is at its most subjective the higher the persons rating goes and reaches almost stratospheric heights if that person has a title of any form be it LM or SGM. (In saying this though there have been some exceptions to this I have dealt with some very grounded and polite titled players, GM Spassky, IM Welling, GM Seriwan & IM Dive are 4 that come to mind)
Thanks 
HTH
Angry
« Last Edit: 05/03/09 at 11:02:08 by Hadron »  

I'm reminded again of something Short wrote recently, approximately "The biggest fallacy in chess is the quasi-religious belief in the primacy of the opening."
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Dragan Glas
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #66 - 02/26/09 at 12:35:05
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Greetings,

Agree with many here - it depends on the opponent's objectivity and willingness to help both improve (regardless of rating difference).

More often, you get the opponent (having won) who claims they could win this way or that, or - if you won or drew - they claim they *could* have won this way or that!  Wink

Sometimes, you get opponents who are willing to help both of you learn - during the game!

Years ago, I played someone with whom I was evenly matched - we both reached a dynamically-tense position where a central pawn advance (d- or e-pawn) by either would either result in opening up the position or lock it up with play switching to opposite wings - both of us hesitated to do so, each wishing the other to commit themselves first.

My opponent had left the board whilst I ruminated over whether to commit myself and which central pawn to advance - I couldn't decide and then thought I'd have a look at it from his side of the board. So I got up, went round to his side of the board - the tables were separated rather than in a continuous line - and looked at the position whilst standing. After a while, I heard a voice say, "Well, can you tell me what's happening?" - my opponent had returned - and we stood there chatting about the position for some time before deciding that we still didn't know who stood better if any pawn was advanced! (A few moves later, he committed himself with his d-pawn, at which point I immediately advanced my e-pawn, locking the position - later, he broke through on the queen-side and I eventually lost under time pressure.)

We did a post-mortem later - and still couldn't decide. Grin

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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chk
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #65 - 02/26/09 at 09:00:46
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Agreed, but it's worth a try anyway. If a good idea is shown to you, your understanding of what had happened will be increased.

We are always so obsessed of ourselves, our skills, weaknesses etc. so I always welcome another person's (hopefully objective) comments & ideas, - let's say a different mirror to look at myself.
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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cyronix
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #64 - 02/25/09 at 16:17:24
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In a post mortem, you often get lost playing an alternative variation, you play 15-20 moves in about 5 minutes, and then the two players agree that the variation is no good, although in the 15-20 moves made, there just needs to be one single incorrect move to falsify this verdict.
Also there are some people who *always* state they are better, they could win here or there ... and then show fast superficial plans with 2 or 3 moves and return to the former position ...
  
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chk
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #63 - 02/25/09 at 10:05:40
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Funny, last Sunday I had a good (honest) post mortem. As I said before it's the complete way to experience chess. Like going to the theatre and then discussing the plot with the people you saw it with.

The only problem is few people realise that it's better to spend max 20' on the post mortem and also manage to have a complete walkthrough of the game. Many tend to get lost for ever in the first complicated variation that arises..

It takes two to tango.. Wink
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #62 - 02/24/09 at 11:55:26
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chk wrote on 01/07/09 at 13:25:59:
I have sort of the opposite problem: playing against stronger opposition, lose (usually interesting games) and the winner refrains from a post mortem.

So I end up doing the post mortems myself  Cheesy

imo most people get tired after a long game, plus they gather lots of stress and emotions during the last phase of the game, so the normal tendency is to opt for a chess anti-climax. In my experience, it is usually people who are serious about improving that are always willing to do post mortems..


I tend to be guilty of that. Competitive chess takes a lot out of me so I ussually can't bring me to do a post mortem or the other guy has to be a very nice person. It also builds on a few disappointing post mortems where the opponent was just blurting out lines that just weren't correct giving me the feel that my win was worthless.
  
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HgMan
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #61 - 01/18/09 at 14:05:29
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TalJechin wrote on 01/18/09 at 09:19:13:
Quote:
"What's the best way to O'Connell Street?"

"Are ye walkin' or are ye drivin?"

"I'm driving."

"Dat's the best way."


Driving's never the best way to get anywhere in Dublin...
  

"Luck favours the prepared mind."  --Louis Pasteur
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JEH
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #60 - 01/18/09 at 11:26:19
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This thread seems to be drifting off topic  Cheesy

  

Those who want to go by my perverse footsteps play such pawn structure with fuzzy atypical still strategic orientations

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, stuck in the middlegame with you
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #59 - 01/18/09 at 11:10:27
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TalJechin wrote on 01/18/09 at 09:19:13:
Quote:
"What's the best way to O'Connell Street?"

"Are ye walkin' or are ye drivin?"

"I'm driving."

"Dat's the best way."


made me giggle Grin
  
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TalJechin
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #58 - 01/18/09 at 09:19:13
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Quote:
"What's the best way to O'Connell Street?"

"Are ye walkin' or are ye drivin?"

"I'm driving."

"Dat's the best way."
  
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Gerry1970
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #57 - 01/17/09 at 02:00:28
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MNb wrote on 01/16/09 at 21:23:24:
I bet some people think you are East-European as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasiya_Markovich

Maybe you are the brother of this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Umansky


A interesting thread, albeit with a few different subtopics. I am thankful for your first link. I really like one of Markowich's paintings!!

Gerry
  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #56 - 01/16/09 at 22:49:12
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Greetings,

It's ironic - all these misunderstandings are the sort of thing which lead people to accuse each other of being disrespectful!  Roll Eyes

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #55 - 01/16/09 at 22:46:20
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Greetings,

Markovich wrote on 01/16/09 at 17:14:01:
@Dragan

That's funny, I'd always assumed you were a Serb, Dragan being a common Serbian first name.  "Dragan Dabic" was the alias adopted by Radovan Karadzic when he was in hiding.

http://www.dragandabic.com/

Sometimes posters on other sites have thought the same thing.  Grin

Now you know why my chess isn't as good as you thought it should be, given my "name"!  Embarrassed

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas

  
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Dragan Glas
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #54 - 01/16/09 at 22:41:48
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Greetings,

Kowl wrote on 01/16/09 at 08:56:32:
Dragan Glas wrote on 01/15/09 at 18:39:37:


Are you Welsh by any chance, Kowl?  Smiley

[I also wondered if you're a fan of Stephen Donaldson!? Wink]


Indeed I am Dragon, as for the other guy.. Stephen who?

Stephen Donaldson is a SF/Fantasy author - best known for his Tolkien-esque The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant trilogy of series.

In it, one of the major races character's name is "Kowl".

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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MNb
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #53 - 01/16/09 at 21:23:24
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I bet some people think you are East-European as well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anastasiya_Markovich

Maybe you are the brother of this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Umansky
  

The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged.
GC Lichtenberg
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