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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) lack of respect among chess players (Read 35866 times)
IM Christoph Wisnewski
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #7 - 01/08/09 at 09:18:44
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chk wrote on 01/07/09 at 13:25:59:
I have sort of the opposite problem: playing against stronger opposition, lose (usually interesting games) and the winner refrains from a post mortem.


For me, it depends how the game eventually ended; if I win against someone, and this someone chose to prolong the game unnecessarily (e.g. playing on in positions where there was absolutely no danger for me of not winning), I simply subtract the time spent from a possible post mortem analysis. Should that be more than an hour, there will be no post mortem at all.
  

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chk
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #6 - 01/07/09 at 13:25:59
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I have sort of the opposite problem: playing against stronger opposition, lose (usually interesting games) and the winner refrains from a post mortem.

So I end up doing the post mortems myself  Cheesy

imo most people get tired after a long game, plus they gather lots of stress and emotions during the last phase of the game, so the normal tendency is to opt for a chess anti-climax. In my experience, it is usually people who are serious about improving that are always willing to do post mortems..
  

"I play honestly and I play to win. If I lose, I take my medicine." - Bobby
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Antillian
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #5 - 12/23/08 at 18:56:13
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Perhaps these folks you beat are just sore losers. Or perhaps you have a role in how they react to. Only you can say for sure. 

But ask yourself, how graceful are you when you win? One thing I have found as a rapidly improving junior (seems like decades ago) was that many of older folks at the chess club who had been playing chess for donkey years at the same level had a hard time dealing with young boys barely out of diapers and still dressed in khaki shirts and short pants running cycles around them in chess. Some dealt with it better than others. Some quit playing. Some dealt with it gracefully. But it has been my experience that older folks who have been playing for a while often can't come to terms with the young "up-starts". There may be nothing you can do about it. But you should look in the mirror still and first ask yourself what attitude do you  yourself portray when you win. Remember, it sometimes takes more grace to be a winner than to be a loser.
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Markovich
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #4 - 12/23/08 at 16:42:38
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I personally have no problem when I lose against a stronger opponent,
and he clearly played better. Sometimes I have problems when I lose a winning position, or if I just throw away a position against a weaker opponent, but I think this is normal. I am in the range 1900/2000.
But at my local club or in tournaments there are players in the range of 1500-1700 that absolutely show no respect at all when I win against them. And it is not like they have a reason, they didn't have a winning position anywhere, they were worse throughout the whole game,
and still they can't understand that they lose to me. Some people after a game in a tourney don't want to analyse, etc. Maybe it is because I am younger than them, and they have problem losing against someone who is younger, but I don't know. I myself, I am happy if I have the chance to play against a stronger player, for example in the range 2200-2300, and I totally accept when I lose and he clearly was better.  But I really don't know what is wrong with these people with much lower rating and worse play not being able to understand their loss against me ... I don't even know if I should turn up at the chessclub anymore, because chesswise I can't learn anything  there, with white I win all my games, some stronger players in the range 1800-1900, when having white just play ubersolid and defensive chess trying to dry out the position, hoping to win on time against me... this is no chess that can survice in long time controls ... this is more or less garbage ...
it's really only for the social event I come ... or once someone who normally plays the KID tryed out the slav against me once, he played 4. ... Bf5 and I played Qb3, and he had to move it backwards to c8 ...
I said to him Bf5 is wrong, it is not theory, and he says "no, no, it is right, I like the position",  I really don't know what to say to this.  I just won't say anything anymore, it's simply not worth it.


So long as you're modest and friendly, I fail to understand why anyone would not respect you.  But if some people don't, then just say (to yourself) to Hell with them and go on winning.  I don't think you should stop going to the club so long as there are people there who have a decent chance of beating you.  I wouldn't that worry individuals X and Y didn't like me.  Life is way to short for that, and you weren't put on this planet to make life easy for some 1500-rated doofus.

I don't sympathize with your complaint that so-and-so is just playing supersolid chess as White and trying to time you out.  It's a game, you know?  And if you want to beat these people, you have to come up with moves that do it.  It's their right to play the London or whatever, it's your right to smash them. 

This game is about winning.  Focus on that, and to blazes with people that don't like it.  At the same time, I think that if you act modestly and respectfully, you'll find some chess friends to share the game with.
  

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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #3 - 12/23/08 at 15:45:16
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Why do you care about those people? Dont waste your time, just smile and say goodbye. Improving your chess means also improving your personality. You also have to learn to lose and how to do a useful post mortem. If they think they were better, dont try to persuade them it isnt so, but let them believe they are right - you will certainly win again next time against such opponents.
  
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #2 - 12/23/08 at 14:18:14
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Quote:
 But I really don't know what is wrong with these people with much lower rating and worse play not being able to understand their loss against me ...   
.


Perhaps people judge on appearances and mistakenly perceive you as weak. 
Do you walk with a stoop, wear diamond pattern sweaters, have an array of nervous twitches, or perhaps comedic facial hair such as a fu manchu or a handlebar moustache? 
Get down the gym, buy some cool shades Cool, ditch clothing yer granny bought you, remove the mullet and people will respect you for your true worth. Happy analysing...!
  
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Stigma
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Re: lack of respect among chess players
Reply #1 - 12/23/08 at 11:46:01
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I think these are often the same people who fail to really think about why they lose games. If they can't be honest with themselves in evaluting their positions and performance, how can they be honest when analyzing with an opponent? Many players use post-mortem analysis just to boost/repair their ego, there is even a saying that "If you lose the game you should win the analysis!".

Of course ignoring one's failings like this is a sure way of never improving, so in a sense you should just be thankful that you have a calmer and more objective outlook; this will lead to more success. The lack of respect can be annoying, but really they are just shooting themselves in the foot.

I always try to be polite whether I win or lose, and be ruthlessly objective about why I win, draw or lose. I lost 4 games out of 25-30 this autumn season, and only once did I refuse to analyze: I was two pawns up but played way too slowly and lost on time. My opponent was kind enough to leave me alone after such a self-inflicted disaster!
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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cyronix
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lack of respect among chess players
12/23/08 at 11:25:10
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I personally have no problem when I lose against a stronger opponent,
and he clearly played better. Sometimes I have problems when I lose a winning position, or if I just throw away a position against a weaker opponent, but I think this is normal. I am in the range 1900/2000.
But at my local club or in tournaments there are players in the range of 1500-1700 that absolutely show no respect at all when I win against them. And it is not like they have a reason, they didn't have a winning position anywhere, they were worse throughout the whole game,
and still they can't understand that they lose to me. Some people after a game in a tourney don't want to analyse, etc. Maybe it is because I am younger than them, and they have problem losing against someone who is younger, but I don't know. I myself, I am happy if I have the chance to play against a stronger player, for example in the range 2200-2300, and I totally accept when I lose and he clearly was better.  But I really don't know what is wrong with these people with much lower rating and worse play not being able to understand their loss against me ... I don't even know if I should turn up at the chessclub anymore, because chesswise I can't learn anything  there, with white I win all my games, some stronger players in the range 1800-1900, when having white just play ubersolid and defensive chess trying to dry out the position, hoping to win on time against me... this is no chess that can survice in long time controls ... this is more or less garbage ...
it's really only for the social event I come ... or once someone who normally plays the KID tryed out the slav against me once, he played 4. ... Bf5 and I played Qb3, and he had to move it backwards to c8 ...
I said to him Bf5 is wrong, it is not theory, and he says "no, no, it is right, I like the position",  I really don't know what to say to this.  I just won't say anything anymore, it's simply not worth it.
  
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