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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Time Trouble Help (Read 26218 times)
Dragan Glas
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #59 - 01/08/09 at 20:55:18
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Greetings,

Understood.

In that case:

1) If they all appeal to you and you know your opponent's style, chose the one which least suits him/her;
2) If you don't know your opponent enough - although, the opening/variation they've played should give you some idea of their preference(!) - or you still can't decide...chose one at random.

Later, when you get home, you can look at the other possibilities, so that next time ... Wink

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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winawer77
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #58 - 01/07/09 at 18:40:52
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As for Winawer77's comment about "indecisiveness", which I can understand, and to which Miki agreed ...

With all due respect, does this not reveal a lack of knowledge about oneself?

"Man, Know Thyself!" is surely applicable here!

If one has to decide - at the board - which variation suits one's style/temperament, is one really prepared?

Surely all such decisions should be made before one sits down at the board, so you can enjoy the game more, secure in your own mind that you're as well-prepared as you can possibly be - subject to your level of chess erudition.


No offence taken  Smiley However, I would like to clarify what I meant by 'indecisiveness'. 

I not referring to a wider gameplan, choice of opening, or selection of variations when playing, certainly not when referring to playing style. This is the sort of thing that should be decided on before the clock starts, rather than spending valuable time at the board doing this kind of soul searching.

I am referring to those situations where there are 2 or 3 roughly equal possibilities and excessive time is spent deciding between them.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, this is due the law of diminishing returns - after a certain amount of time further time spent thinking will produce fewer and fewer returns. So, for optimum efficiency, one would have to make a move around this point. So, by indecisiveness, I am referring to the situations you have gained as much information as is possible from your thinking time, but still waste further valuable time deciding on a move.

And yes, I think there is a psychological reason behind this. The cure, anyone?  Smiley
  
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MNb
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #57 - 01/07/09 at 02:35:41
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drkodos wrote on 01/06/09 at 14:44:33:
Anyone with chronic time trouble issues should check with a behavioral therapist


While I agree that chronic time trouble is a psychological phenomenon A) I'm not sure if it's a problem; some people enjoy it and why not?
B) if someone wants to be cured a little insight and common sense should be enough.

Stigma wrote on 01/06/09 at 14:26:31:

Of course, rushing out moves in time trouble is not ideal. But I was hoping to solve that problem by training to think and calculate more efficiently, not by thinking less which is basically what I did this time around.
I guess I should work through my calculation books by Kotov, Aagaard and Dvoretsky, and see if there really is a difference Smiley


I certainly did not mean to reject this goal of more efficiency, on the contrary. The point that I try to make is that you indeed thought less - and sometimes worse - at an early stage, but more (and probably better) at a later stage. Apparently you have experienced the advantages of the latter. Now there is every reason to be dissatisfied with your play - in OTB chess I have played less than 5 games I really like. You should realize this though: if you played really good chess your rating would be 600 points higher.
The two don't bite each other. Yes, strive for more efficiency; yes, try to play the opening quicker. Then be happy that you dive into a position really deep when it matters. (And next time be careful with ...Nxg3).

Markovich wrote on 01/06/09 at 16:14:54:

This remark is condescending and you should apologize for it.


Never mind, this is just internet. I don't really feel offfended and already paid him back. So for me it's still good (internet) friends.
  

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Dragan Glas
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #56 - 01/07/09 at 01:48:45
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Greetings,

Stigma wrote on 01/06/09 at 17:36:56:
Wise words, Dragan Glas. 

Yes, most of my games are played against weaker opponents. I know this is not ideal, but at least I can set myself the challenge of winning as many games as possible and finishing high in tournaments. Time trouble has sometimes been a hindrance in this, but maybe I'm getting somewhere now. I also often play openings that are not the absolute main lines, particularly with black, and this might contribute to getting out of book early. Not everybody below 2000 knows 15 moves of Pirc theory, for example.
Travelling to stronger (international) tournaments is a rare treat but I always thoroughly enjoy it.

I thought as much; that you're playing weaker opponents - at least, in terms of their knowledge of your openings/variations - they may be your equal or better in other areas of the game, hmmm?

That also may be a reason for your running into time-trouble.

Speaking of opponents not knowing as much of your opening/variation as yourself, that too can be a problem - when they diverge from the "main line", you may then find yourself trying to remember why their move is bad! Undecided

Many years ago, whilst playing in a tournament in Dublin, I had black against a 2100-rated opponent (my rating was just under 1400 - 1399, to be precise!). He played 1 e4 and I played my favourite Dragon. I could tell from the rate at which he was moving, that by move 5(!) - when I played ..., g6 - he didn't know what to do! He started brooding and then played 6 f4 (Levenfish Variation) - I continued playing quickly (he was taking so long to play each move, I had plenty of time to think!).

My main problem was that it was the first time anyone had played this variation against me - everybody played the Yugoslav/Rauzer Attack!

I was racking my brains, during his thinking time, trying to recall the lines as he well-and-truly wandered off the beaten track - I ended up having to work things out at the board, rather than rely on my memorisation of theory, which is basically what I'd have done with the Yugoslav.

[I actually missed the correct continuation for myself, due to my lack of confidence that it was the right move - Dragon players will know what I mean when I say it was the queen for three minor piece exchange line.]

The game became a extremely complicated middle- and end-game saga, which - sadly - I eventually lost...  Roll Eyes

After the game, he admitted that he hadn't had a clue about what to do against the Dragon and had just played 6 f4 because he knew that it was played in the Najdorf!  Shocked

Following that game, I made a special point of knowing - and understanding! - what to do against the weaker/bad moves which are generally only mentioned in passing.

Not that this variation is weak or bad - I was just using that as a example.

Needless to say, however, that the next opponent who played the Levenfish against me found that he wasn't in a "safer, positional line"!  Cheesy

[I'd been practicing playing with the three minor pieces against the queen.]

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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drkodos
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #55 - 01/06/09 at 18:44:26
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Stigma wrote on 01/06/09 at 18:10:50:
drkodos wrote on 01/06/09 at 17:52:59:


Using "I think" is a form of passive agressive communication.



I stake my PhD/Communications on it.


There are times when it is appropos:  such as when one is differentiating between multiple people's line of thinking and one needs to make clear their individual line of thinking.


At least you admit there are exceptions. I would have thought that particularly in a debate or discussion, such as is going on all the time on this forum, "I think" is appropriate. There is a difference between stating a (supposed) fact and an opinion, and it's useful to be able to differentiate the two. I realize that I must appear very "passive agressive" to you, since I probably use "I think" a lot, almost without thinking! Wink



I think I agree that it can be useful to differentiate between stating a supposed fact and an opinion.  But, it is not neccessarily the author's obligation to do so.  That is a crux.

To me.  Wink

I think you're ok.  Smiley

So, the argument then becomes:  is it the authors obligation to differentiate? 

Here I have to say:  No.  Of course it is not.  It depends on what he author wishes to achieve and I THINK that should be left up to the author, and that person exclusively, as to when they do, or do not use this rhetorical device.  

I also accept any repurcussions of this communicative strategery.

Is that fair?

I think it is.

No.  ....Wait.



It is.

Grin

I think this is my last post on this subject because now I am short on time.

 Good stuff!


#30



  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Stigma
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #54 - 01/06/09 at 18:10:50
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drkodos wrote on 01/06/09 at 17:52:59:


Using "I think" is a form of passive agressive communication.



I stake my PhD/Communications on it.


There are times when it is appropos:  such as when one is differentiating between multiple people's line of thinking and one needs to make clear their individual line of thinking.


At least you admit there are exceptions. I would have thought that particularly in a debate or discussion, such as is going on all the time on this forum, "I think" is appropriate. There is a difference between stating a (supposed) fact and an opinion, and it's useful to be able to differentiate the two. I realize that I must appear very "passive agressive" to you, since I probably use "I think" a lot, almost without thinking! Wink
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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drkodos
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #53 - 01/06/09 at 17:52:59
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Stigma wrote on 01/06/09 at 17:36:56:


Actually I think drkodos has it backwards and "I think" is often an example of clear communication; it specifies a personal opinion as opposed to a law, an order, or a social norm. Of course if it is over-used it ceases to have real meaning, but used discriminately it can still have value. But I'm not opening any trans-atlantic cans of worm this time around Wink



Using "I think" is a form of passive agressive communication.



I stake my PhD/Communications on it.


There are times when it is appropos:  such as when one is differentiating between multiple people's line of thinking and one needs to make clear their individual line of thinking.


I am also sure there are cultural/behavioral components at work as well.  Differing cultures would no doubt view it differently. 

But, this is English, on a predominately English speaking forum.  And in English, prefacing statements with "I think" is passive agressive communication, and is not the best way to a clear and lucid understanding of one's position.   It is primarilly a tool a person uses to distance themselves from an opinion they fear may alienate others and to create plausible denial later on, if the need arises.


~ drkodos




When a person exercises their option to communicate a strong opinion without using "I think"  it does not mean they are dogmatic and unwilling to accept that other ideas may be valid as well.  In fact, a real irony in this exact scenario is that a user such as Miki presupposes to KNOW what is in the minds, and even the intent!, of the other communicator!  

And all this because of words they did not use!

Hypocritical-passive-aggressive-jabberwocky, is what I call it, think about it, and even opine it to be!  Smiley

At least, I think I feel that way.  Do I?

When others choose to use this form of posting/talking, I do not argue against them doing so.  Why then should anyone argue the other side?  If Miki's perspective is valid, then so too is the opposite side, and then my argument that one should speak as I do would be just as valid.

But note:  Only one of us is telling others what they SHOULD do to apease.  And it aint me.  I only speak of my own perspective, and not as a missive of what I think you need to, or must do in order to make me feel better.

This is the goal of the Passive aggressives: to make others behave as they do, brcause as we can all see, they are clearly better, know better, communicate better, and are a true role model for all to follow.  

And they aim to do it without hurting anyone's feelings. Isn't that nice of them!  So special!  





Nurse, please call the next patient.  Wink





  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Stigma
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #52 - 01/06/09 at 17:36:56
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Wise words, Dragan Glas. 

Yes, most of my games are played against weaker opponents. I know this is not ideal, but at least I can set myself the challenge of winning as many games as possible and finishing high in tournaments. Time trouble has sometimes been a hindrance in this, but maybe I'm getting somewhere now. I also often play openings that are not the absolute main lines, particularly with black, and this might contribute to getting out of book early. Not everybody below 2000 knows 15 moves of Pirc theory, for example.
Travelling to stronger (international) tournaments is a rare treat but I always thoroughly enjoy it.

Off topic: 
I think "I think" displays an understanding that my view is not the only possible one, and other views are allowed and even encouraged. "I think" are the words of a thoughtful person who wants to hear all sides of an argument, while at the same time clearly stating what his/her opinion is. The statement without "I think" might well be made with persuasion in mind, or expecting deferrence and automatic acceptance from others. This depends a lot on context of course.

Actually I think drkodos has it backwards and "I think" is often an example of clear communication; it specifies a personal opinion as opposed to a law, an order, or a social norm. Of course if it is over-used it ceases to have real meaning, but used discriminately it can still have value. But I'm not opening any trans-atlantic cans of worm this time around Wink
  

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Dragan Glas
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #51 - 01/06/09 at 16:26:17
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Greetings,

Stigma wrote on 01/06/09 at 14:26:31:
TN wrote on 01/06/09 at 00:14:51:

@Dragan Glas: I think everybody agrees that book moves should be played quickly, and any difference comes from how we react to something unexpected. But on my modest 2150 level this happens often and early, and more due to my opponents' ignorance of "book" than my own.

Thank you for not taking offence! Wink

It sounds as if you're playing more opponents lower-rated than yourself - lack of superior competition where you live?

Ideally, one should enter tournaments with an average rating higher than your own, so that it's you who leave "book" rather than your opponent!

If that means researching available tournaments before choosing the optimum one(s) in which to compete - and paying for the privilege! - then, so be it.

Quote:
Quote:
MNb wrote on Today at 10:33:44:
Here you hit the nail on its head - time trouble addicts are perfectionists. But do you really think rushing out your moves in time trouble belongs to your ideal of a well-played game?

Of course, rushing out moves is not ideal. But I was hoping to solve that problem by training to think and calculate more efficiently, not by thinking less which is basically what I did this time around.

I guess I should work through my calculation books by Kotov, Aagaard and Dvoretsky, and see if there really is a difference Smiley

Your other comment, in answer to MNb, is the way to go - improve the effectiveness and efficiency of your thinking.

Combinational sight is very important, as I'm sure you already know. Being able to simply see tactical patterns quickly is what speeds up your "thinking" - if you find you're having to work them out at the board, then you certainly need to improve in this area.

One can say the same for positional insight - recognising strengths/weaknesses in the position is also a case of studying books and games until you can recognise these "patterns" unconsciously - again, saving considerable time spent consciously going through a check-list of positional elements.

But I'm not telling you anything you - indeed, all of us! - don't already know. Wink

It's putting it into practice that matters!  Smiley

[If I were as effective in doing what I've just said, I'd be World Champion!  Roll Eyes]

It's getting as close as we can to our fullest potential that counts - even if we don't become World Champion.

The fun in this journey is seeing - indeed, feeling - the progress we're making!

Kindest regards,

Dragan Glas
  
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drkodos
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #50 - 01/06/09 at 16:22:15
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Miki wrote on 01/06/09 at 15:52:45:
Person A says: ''It is very easy to become a grandmaster''. 

Person B says: ''I think that it is very easy to become a grandmaster''.

See the difference?

If not, I Think I'll explain it to you: first sentence is an absolute statement implying that it, indeed, is very easy for everyone to become a grandmaster. I thinkSentence laid out in this form doesn't really accept that to some people, becoming a grandmaster is not such an easy task.
I think Second statement is clearly laid out in a form of an opinion. I think In person B's opinion it is very easy to become a grandmaster. I think Person B could be a very talented player, also well aware that not everyone is born with such a great talent. I thinkBy saying ''I think...'' he clearly expresses that TO HIM becoming a grandmaster is very easy while being fully aware that this is not everyone's opinion, and that some people would find it an impossible task.

P.S.
I think This is now definitely last of me on this topic. But I think for anyone wishing to enroll in any further off-topic discussion feel free to PM me.



I think it reads better now.

Less offensive.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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drkodos
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #49 - 01/06/09 at 16:20:38
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Fear not for whom the bell toll, for I THINK, it tolls for thee.

Person A communicates clearly and probably has good and open relationships.

Person B does not communicate clearly.   


Alas poor Yorick, I THINK, I knew him well.

Alos, Miki why are you not prefacing all your statements with I THINK?   



  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #48 - 01/06/09 at 16:14:54
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Miki wrote on 12/30/08 at 00:31:15:

I'll help you a bit by bolding it.  Roll Eyes


This remark is condescending and you should apologize for it.

As to the point, whether anyone precedes his assertion by "I think" is less important than context in determining the degree of intended generality.  Many times, very strong generalizations are preceded by "I think."  In this case, to me as well as others, it did seem that you were suggesting that a policy of trying to keep up on time was not a good one in general.  In any case, if MNb misunderstood you, you should have come back more politely, not with "Nice try but..." and the remark I quoted above.  It spreads bad feeling to be so adversarial.

As it is, instead of discussing chess, we cavil over word choice.
  

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drkodos
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #47 - 01/06/09 at 16:01:18
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Miki wrote on 01/06/09 at 15:52:45:
Person A says: ''It is very easy to become a grandmaster''. 

Person B says: ''I think that it is very easy to become a grandmaster''.

See the difference?

If not, I'll explain it to you: first sentence is an absolute statement implying that it, indeed, is very easy for everyone to become a grandmaster. Sentence laid out in this form doesn't really accept that to some people, becoming a grandmaster is not such an easy task.
Second statement is clearly laid out in a form of an opinion. In person B's opinion it is very easy to become a grandmaster. Person B could be a very talented player, also well aware that not everyone is born with such a great talent. By saying ''I think...'' he clearly expresses that TO HIM becoming a grandmaster is very easy while being fully aware that this is not everyone's opinion, and that some people would find it an impossible task.

P.S.
This is now definitely last of me on this topic. But for anyone wishing to enroll in any further off-topic discussion feel free to PM me.



No dude, I do not see any difference because the FACT is that it is not easy to become a GM, regardless of what anybody states.

You grant people too much power if you think that just becayse they make a statement it might be true.


Take these two statements:

The Moon is made of blue chesse.
I think the mooon is made of blue cheese.


They are both inaccurate, because not only is the moon NOT made of blue cheese, but also bcause I do not really think it is.

Time trouble is a psychological problem.


Statement is true or not and whether I think it or not has no bearing on whether or not time trouble is or is not a psychological problem.


I guess being a person that cannot be hurt from words makes it impossble for me to understand people who choose to be, and why softening a phrase makes it more palatable.

Sticks and stones can break the bones, but words seem to make a lot of people butt-hurt.

Grin
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Miki
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #46 - 01/06/09 at 15:52:45
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Person A says: ''It is very easy to become a grandmaster''. 

Person B says: ''I think that it is very easy to become a grandmaster''.

See the difference?

If not, I'll explain it to you: first sentence is an absolute statement implying that it, indeed, is very easy for everyone to become a grandmaster. Sentence laid out in this form doesn't really accept that to some people, becoming a grandmaster is not such an easy task.
Second statement is clearly laid out in a form of an opinion. In person B's opinion it is very easy to become a grandmaster. Person B could be a very talented player, also well aware that not everyone is born with such a great talent. By saying ''I think...'' he clearly expresses that TO HIM becoming a grandmaster is very easy while being fully aware that this is not everyone's opinion, and that some people would find it an impossible task.

P.S.
This is now definitely last of me on this topic. But for anyone wishing to enroll in any further off-topic discussion feel free to PM me.
  
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Re: Time Trouble Help
Reply #45 - 01/06/09 at 15:50:10
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Hello:

"Btw. are you doing anything training-wise to combat time trouble, or just being more aware of the clock at the board?"

Mostly being more aware at the board. Following TN's suggestion, I wrote down the time for all the moves (most of the time). It helped me see early on if I was headed for time trouble or not. That hopefully gives me the option to make a conscious decision to speed up a bit, rather than to keep drifting.

I am continuing to study openings as I see how I can reel off 10 mins in less than 2 mins when I know the opening. This is especially important for G/90. Playing 5 + 2 blitz online, with the main goal of practicing openings, seems to help me get into the mode of playing opening moves faster.

Gerry
  
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