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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch (Read 26703 times)
BirdBrain
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #24 - 06/11/09 at 18:22:48
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I know this is a Leningrad forum, and there are some hardcore Leningrad players out there, but I believe in flexibility.   
Sometimes, I do face 2. Bf4 against the Dutch, and I prefer to develop in queenside fianchetto fashion there, instead of forcing the ...g6 idea.  Play is logical, and Black has plenty of ideas at his disposal, without venturing the ...g6 realms.  Of course, this may not be what someone in this forum wants to read - however, I think it is good to get a second opinion on alternate ideas.
For instance, after 1. d4 f5 2. Bf4 Nf6 3. c4 e6 4. Nc3 Bb4 (easy development for Black - aiming to play in Nimzo-style, rather than try to retain the bishop) 5. e3 b6 6. Bd3 Bb7 7. Nf3...
As you can see, I don't have to push any farther to show that Black has a comfortable position.  Bf4 got the bishop activated, but White must prove that his early move is accurate.  I don't think it is a good choice for a second move, personally.
  
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #23 - 02/25/09 at 12:18:39
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Smyslov_Fan wrote on 02/25/09 at 03:44:13:
Hi, 

I just played a game that went:

1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.c4 g6 4.g3 Bg7 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 0-0 7.0-0 Qe8 8.d5 Na6 9.Rb1 Bd7 10.b4 c6 11.dc6 bc6 12.a3 Rb8?!

I was at a loss as to what to do.  I played 13.Qa4!? and won fairly quickly.  The pressure on the q-side proved too much for Black to withstand.

However when I got around to looking the line up, the books recommended 13.Bb2, quoting the game Shipov-Geisler, 1994 and suggesting White has a comfortable edge.

While I know my opponent could have improved, I rather liked the position I got from 13.Qa4.  Does anyone know if it has a pedigree beyond my own experience?  Does it have a refutation, or a reason for not being mentioned "in the big books" as Bent Larsen used to say?

Thanks for your help!


Kinderman recommended 8 .. a5 (I have tried Na6 as black in some blitz games and lost do to your line) and I have been relative succefull (I even defeated a FM once in a internet blitz game) with that move and the dvd that this thread orginally is about recommends 7 .. c6 for some reason, perhaps do to Re1 plan.
  
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #22 - 02/25/09 at 09:38:25
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I think the queen should stay at d1 to cover d6 and d5. I think black should go 13..Nc7 or maybe 13..Qc8 and push for e5.
  

If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through.
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #21 - 02/25/09 at 03:44:13
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Hi, 

I just played a game that went:

1.d4 f5 2.Nf3 Nf6 3.c4 g6 4.g3 Bg7 5.Bg2 d6 6.Nc3 0-0 7.0-0 Qe8 8.d5 Na6 9.Rb1 Bd7 10.b4 c6 11.dc6 bc6 12.a3 Rb8?!

I was at a loss as to what to do.  I played 13.Qa4!? and won fairly quickly.  The pressure on the q-side proved too much for Black to withstand.

However when I got around to looking the line up, the books recommended 13.Bb2, quoting the game Shipov-Geisler, 1994 and suggesting White has a comfortable edge.

While I know my opponent could have improved, I rather liked the position I got from 13.Qa4.  Does anyone know if it has a pedigree beyond my own experience?  Does it have a refutation, or a reason for not being mentioned "in the big books" as Bent Larsen used to say?

Thanks for your help!
  
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #20 - 02/15/09 at 20:41:33
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It deosn't look like 8 Qb3 or Qd3 have been considered from the above mentioned listing.

In particular I'm suprised about Qb3 as it is a common plan in the Leningrad combined with Rd1.

Deos anyone know why this is so poor as not to deserve a mention ??

Nelson Huh
  
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #19 - 01/16/09 at 01:31:02
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1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 g6 5.Bf4 Bg7 6.e3 0-0 7.Be2 Qe8 8.0-0 Nh5 9.Qc2 e5. If Nc3-d5 is a problem, play ...c6 at some point.
  

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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #18 - 01/15/09 at 19:04:12
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Of course not take on f4, that would only help white. The point of the move is to prepare e5 by aidding support to that square by the Bishop.

  
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #17 - 01/15/09 at 17:05:17
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bragesjo wrote on 01/14/09 at 22:31:00:
No games on the Leningrad disc on that system. Generally the Bishop at f4 is misplace since black has chanses to make a e5 pawn advance. But at club level it is till quite often seen. 

Perhaps someone who has the companion disc (anti dutch system not avalable at local store yet) knows more ?


Nh5 is pointless , since white can just ignore and then You never can get e5 break. And taking on f4 is not good also...
  

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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #16 - 01/15/09 at 09:22:28
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Place a Bishop at g7, a pawn at d6 (and perhas a pawn at c6 in some lines) and a queen at e8 and move the knight to h5 and e5 is playalbe
  
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #15 - 01/14/09 at 22:37:38
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bragesjo wrote on 01/14/09 at 22:31:00:
No games on the Leningrad disc on that system. Generally the Bishop at f4 is misplace since black has chanses to make a e5 pawn advance. But at club level it is till quite often seen. 

Perhaps someone who has the companion disc (anti dutch system not avalable at local store yet) knows more ?


I don't think e5 is so easy to do in Bf4 systems. White have good control over e5 with pawn d4, Bf4 and Nf4...
  

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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #14 - 01/14/09 at 22:31:00
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No games on the Leningrad disc on that system. Generally the Bishop at f4 is misplace since black has chanses to make a e5 pawn advance. But at club level it is till quite often seen. 

Perhaps someone who has the companion disc (anti dutch system not avalable at local store yet) knows more ?
  
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #13 - 01/14/09 at 22:18:45
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bragesjo wrote on 01/14/09 at 19:55:59:
Ender wrote on 01/14/09 at 12:18:10:
I'm interested in this DVD.
Did IM Martin gives some antidotes to bf4 and bf5 systems?
Like : 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 4.Bg5!?
or 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 g6 5. Bg5 !?

I found this g5 idea difficult to meet Sad


He has two games agiasnt first line and line two is simply a transposing


Thank You. And what about Bf4/e3 systems?
  

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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #12 - 01/14/09 at 19:55:59
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Ender wrote on 01/14/09 at 12:18:10:
I'm interested in this DVD.
Did IM Martin gives some antidotes to bf4 and bf5 systems?
Like : 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 4.Bg5!?
or 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 g6 5. Bg5 !?

I found this g5 idea difficult to meet Sad


He has two games agiasnt first line and line two is simply a transposing
  
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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #11 - 01/14/09 at 12:18:10
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I'm interested in this DVD.
Did IM Martin gives some antidotes to bf4 and bf5 systems?
Like : 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 4.Bg5!?
or 1.d4 f5 2.c4 Nf6 3.Nc3 d6 4.Nf3 g6 5. Bg5 !?

I found this g5 idea difficult to meet Sad
  

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Re: The ABC of the Leningrad Dutch
Reply #10 - 01/14/09 at 11:59:04
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After a quick look at this DVD i give 9 of 10 where 10 i highest.
I have not checked lines with computer yet but the games seems relevent and most games are new. However in absolut mainline (d5) neither player seems to get any play.
  
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