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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Question about tactics (Read 21655 times)
analyzethat
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #24 - 01/15/09 at 10:26:03
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Thanks guys, certainly 10,000 h to get to 2200. I read somewhere that to grasp any subject just on the surface 10,000 h is the basic minimum.

Btw, I'm getting CT-Art now instead of the book I currently have. I've read a lot of good things about it.
  
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Gerry1970
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #23 - 01/15/09 at 01:48:53
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Hello:

It is a bit hard to say in terms of rating as I was away from chess for 10 years and suffered a big drop in rating, which is fairly typical. But I am gaining the points back. How much of this is due to the Seven Circles I don't know. I think I am seeing the bad things my opponents can do to me better than before; IOW I am more aware of tactical mayhem so I can try and prevent it happening. But it still takes me too long to calculate sequences.

Other threads have talked about whether to study what you are weakest at or what you are good at.  Like you, I would prefer to study other things. However, at the moment, I am not ready to give up on tactics as it is so important. I probably also need to do some everyday and I haven't done that again until recently. Hence my attack on the Reinfeld book. I will be curious to see where I stand in terms of tactical ability in a year or so.

Good luck,

Gerry

P.S. Only 11,000 hours study needed for 2200. Better get cracking.
http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=5147
  
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #22 - 01/15/09 at 01:45:02
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analyzethat wrote on 01/14/09 at 23:12:51:
My question to you is simply whether is helped or not. Is there any point to what I'm doing, because to me it feels mostly like WORK. It's not enjoyable and I should probably spend my time on other things instead. But there is that dream of adding 200+ points to my OTB rating. Is it achievable.

Anyone else who has done anything similar, feel free to respond. Is tactics mostly inate or can you get majorly better at it by doing what Gerry and Seth_Xoma has done?

I will turn that on its head: I don't see how you can get seriously better without some bouts of intensive tactics training. It's one of the best things anyone below master level can do to improve their results. I don't think I've heard of anyone above 2000 who didn't at some point solve lots of tactics exercises. I've done the two Reinfeld books, Nunn's Learn Chess Tactics and various computer programs (currently CT-Art).

So please, find some way to motivate yourself for tactics study. You need it to improve, and it can be fun! For many the beauty of a hidden subtle tactic or a violent sacrifice is a reward in itself. You can also make a game out of it and challenge yourself to go through an exercise set faster and faster, like Seth_Xoma.

And of course to real chess tigers the biggest reward is pulling off a deep tactical pattern you recognize in a tournament game. Your opponents won't know what hit them! Wink
  

Improvement begins at the edge of your comfort zone. -Jonathan Rowson
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analyzethat
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #21 - 01/14/09 at 23:12:51
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Gerry, I'm currently doing the book called combinative motifs which that program is based on and I'm about half way through the book for my first time. My intention is to go through it in the same style as Seth_Xoma. Although now I'm not focusing on my time at all. This is probably going to take me another month perhaps.

I must admit, that just like you I have a very bad apetite for tactics. I really have to force myself to do 20 puzzles aday, or even 10.

My question to you is simply whether is helped or not. Is there any point to what I'm doing, because to me it feels mostly like WORK. It's not enjoyable and I should probably spend my time on other things instead. But there is that dream of adding 200+ points to my OTB rating. Is it achievable.

Anyone else who has done anything similar, feel free to respond. Is tactics mostly inate or can you get majorly better at it by doing what Gerry and Seth_Xoma has done?
  
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Gerry1970
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #20 - 01/14/09 at 22:32:01
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Antillian wrote on 01/12/09 at 18:09:54:
Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/12/09 at 17:57:20:
 
I got so I could go through one Reinfeld book (1,001 puzzles) in about 24 minutes.


Wow! That is pretty good! That is 1.44 seconds per puzzle. How many repetitions of the book did it take before you got this good?


Hello:

Amazing and humbling. I went through the Seven Circles with CT-ART and some of it was very hard. But the computer facilitates moving through the problems quickly. Even then it took hours to complete the last day.

I started the Reinfeld book after seeing this thread. I must have a very poor aptitude for tactics. I am going through the problems so slowly. I will say that some of these puzzles are very easy but even in the first 50 I have found a lot of hard ones - some are 7 moves deep. What are other experiences here, Seth aside?

This problem is probably one of the main reasons I get into time trouble.

Gerry
  
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analyzethat
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #19 - 01/14/09 at 01:19:17
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Seth_Xoma, haha this is nuts but I might just do the same, just to become a national master like you Smiley How long did it take you to do all of the 15 repetitions? Did your chess become better because afterwards and do you think it is reflected in your rating (how much in points?).
  
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #18 - 01/13/09 at 23:44:23
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/12/09 at 22:52:04:
Maybe around 15 times, from front to back. I don't remember exactly. I worked on it each day, but still took me about a month to get to that speed.


Still, that is pretty impressive. Either you have a lot of time, or tons of discipline and dedication or both.   Smiley
  

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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #17 - 01/12/09 at 22:52:04
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Maybe around 15 times, from front to back. I don't remember exactly. I worked on it each day, but still took me about a month to get to that speed.
  
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Antillian
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #16 - 01/12/09 at 18:09:54
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/12/09 at 17:57:20:
 
I got so I could go through one Reinfeld book (1,001 puzzles) in about 24 minutes.


Wow! That is pretty good! That is 1.44 seconds per puzzle. How many repetitions of the book did it take before you got this good?
  

"Breakthrough results come about by a series of good decisions, diligently executed and accumulated one on top of another." Jim Collins --- Good to Great
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Seth_Xoma
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #15 - 01/12/09 at 17:57:20
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analyzethat wrote on 01/11/09 at 23:47:40:
Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/11/09 at 23:35:24:
As an aside about the usefulness of CTS:

I am a USCF NM, and use CTS frequently before tournaments to sharpen my tactical eye. However, as has been noted, one of the problems with it is you cannot possibly calculate everything instantly (although one should definitely try). I don't see this as a big deal, though, if one uses CTS in conjunction with, say, a combinational book like "Perfect Your Chess," or Reinfeld's books (Or chesstempo). CTS is not just about improving your online blitz rating, it's about developing a "feel" for combinations. I am reminded about Kasparov explaining to a young student how he correctly found a combination 5-10 moves deep almost instantly. Garry replied, "Instinct." That's what I think CTS is helpful for developing.

On the flip side, I am not sure how good CTS would be for people new to, or weak in, tactics. I think one must already have a firm grasp of many tactical patterns.



I don't know how old you are and if you have always been able to measure your tactical streangth through CTS, but perhaps you can tell me what sort of training you have done. I would be very happy to hear what books you've read for example.




I am 20, and discovered CTS 6 months ago. I have always been fairly good at tactics, but a year ago I tried to improve this area some more. I read a GM Maurice Ashley interview on the web, and he suggested taking any combination book (Reinfeld is perfect for this) and try to solve all the problems. Then go through it again and try to get them all right. This is repeated until you can do the whole book with maybe 95%-100% accuracy. Then comes the fun part. You try to halve your time each time you go through the book. Obviously 1,001 puzzles is a little much, so I started by chopping them up into 100 puzzle segments.

I got so I could go through one Reinfeld book (1,001 puzzles) in about 24 minutes.

I found this was a really good way to cram tactical patterns into my head and have them stay there. Since then, I've been using CTS in conjunction with "Perfect Your Chess" to keep my skill level up.
  
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #14 - 01/12/09 at 01:34:44
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/11/09 at 23:35:24:

I am a USCF NM, and use CTS frequently before tournaments to sharpen my tactical eye. However, as has been noted, one of the problems with it is you cannot possibly calculate everything instantly (although one should definitely try). I don't see this as a big deal, though, if one uses CTS in conjunction with, say, a combinational book like "Perfect Your Chess," or Reinfeld's books (Or chesstempo). CTS is not just about improving your online blitz rating, it's about developing a "feel" for combinations. 

On the flip side, I am not sure how good CTS would be for people new to, or weak in, tactics. I think one must already have a firm grasp of many tactical patterns.


Exactly. CTS is great as a tune up or a quick test to see how well you're quickly seeing tactics, but it's horrible for actually learning tactics. The problem is that you get exposed to a bunch of stuff at a million miles an hour and how are you supposed to learn from that? The correct way (imo) to learn to instantly spot tactics is by repeating tactical exercises ala de la Maza. I don't care about 7 circles or whatever, but you need repetition in order to really learn. So take, for example, 50 exercises from Reinfeld and work through them. Then do them again the next day and the next day. Make sure you can do them all instantly by the end.
  
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analyzethat
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #13 - 01/11/09 at 23:47:40
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Seth_Xoma wrote on 01/11/09 at 23:35:24:
As an aside about the usefulness of CTS:

I am a USCF NM, and use CTS frequently before tournaments to sharpen my tactical eye. However, as has been noted, one of the problems with it is you cannot possibly calculate everything instantly (although one should definitely try). I don't see this as a big deal, though, if one uses CTS in conjunction with, say, a combinational book like "Perfect Your Chess," or Reinfeld's books (Or chesstempo). CTS is not just about improving your online blitz rating, it's about developing a "feel" for combinations. I am reminded about Kasparov explaining to a young student how he correctly found a combination 5-10 moves deep almost instantly. Garry replied, "Instinct." That's what I think CTS is helpful for developing.

On the flip side, I am not sure how good CTS would be for people new to, or weak in, tactics. I think one must already have a firm grasp of many tactical patterns.


I've been solving hundreds and hundreds of puzzles from different books, but I have seriously reached a plateau npw, without a doubt.

I don't know how old you are and if you have always been able to measure your tactical streangth through CTS, but perhaps you can tell me what sort of training you have done. I would be very happy to hear what books you've read for example.

Btw, to another poster about Chess Tempo, I tried it out some time ago and reached a blitz rating of 2200 or something like that.
  
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #12 - 01/11/09 at 23:45:35
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analyzethat wrote on 01/11/09 at 23:37:33:
Miki wrote on 01/11/09 at 23:13:57:
Wow, you claim to have been 1600+ on CTS in less then few months of learning chess.
According to the rating distribution on that site hat means that you were better then approximately 75% of active tacticians on that website. And in less then few months!
Sorry, I find that very hard to believe, unless you are a genius, of course.


Believe it my friend Wink  Within perhaps 6 months or so I was 1600 on CTS. But let me rephrase, I knew the chess rules before that having played with friends and family, but from the time I wanted to learn chess for real I got to this level within the time I stated. I started at 1100 or something and within only a few weeks going at it every day I was 13-1400 easily.

Ok, 6 months is a bit more beliavable then less then a few. (and the fact that you already knew the rules before) Wink
Still, judging by how rapid your progress seems to have been it does look like you're quite talented for chess.
  
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #11 - 01/11/09 at 23:39:09
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Never unilaterally give up an absolute pin.
  

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission.
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Re: Question about tactics
Reply #10 - 01/11/09 at 23:37:33
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Miki wrote on 01/11/09 at 23:13:57:
Wow, you claim to have been 1600+ on CTS in less then few months of learning chess.
According to the rating distribution on that site hat means that you were better then approximately 75% of active tacticians on that website. And in less then few months!
Sorry, I find that very hard to believe, unless you are a genius, of course.


Believe it my friend Wink  Within perhaps 6 months or so I was 1600 on CTS. But let me rephrase, I knew the chess rules before that having played with friends and family, but from the time I wanted to learn chess for real I got to this level within the time I stated. I started at 1100 or something and within only a few weeks going at it every day I was 13-1400 easily.
  
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