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ChessPub Forum › Chess Publishing Openings › 1. e4 e5 - Non-Spanish › Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ?

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Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? (Read 8774 times)

MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10757 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? Reply #8 - 05/15/09 at 20:45:21	Post Tools	Print Post
	I prefer to follow Emma-Ornstein, Olympiade 1972, with 8.Nf3 Bg4 9.Be2 Bxf3 (Qa5) 10.Bxf3 Qc4 11.Rc1. I think this gambit fully correct.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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Bubu13 YaBB Newbies Offline Chess is not a science ! It is a game !! Posts: 48 Location: Marseille Joined: 11/25/04 Gender:	Re: Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? Reply #7 - 05/15/09 at 19:19:09	Post Tools	Print Post
	And what do you think about : 1) e4 e5 2)d4 exd4 3)c3 d5 4)exd5 Qxd5 5)cxd5 Nc6 6)Be3 Bb4+ 7)Nc3 Nf6 8)Nge2 And now : A) 8) ... Bg4 9)h3!? BxNe2 10)BxBe2 Qxg2 11)Bf3 Qg6 and the question is : does white get sufficient compensations ? B) 8) ...Ng4!? in order to take the e3-bishop ? Is there a strong move for white ?


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Markovich God Member Offline Posts: 6099 Location: Columbus, Ohio Joined: 09/17/04	Re: Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? Reply #6 - 01/31/09 at 02:08:05	Post Tools	Print Post
	It's dead equal if Black plays the Bg4, Bb4, Bxf3, Qc4 line. Otherwise I would rather be White.

	The Great Oz has spoken!
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SWJediknight God Member Offline Alert... opponent out of book! Posts: 915 Joined: 03/14/08	Re: Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? Reply #5 - 01/30/09 at 21:33:32	Post Tools	Print Post
	On most of the databases I've seen, in the 6.Nf3 line, if Black misses the opportunity to enter Capablanca's line (e.g. 6...Bg4 7.Be2 0-0-0) White scores very highly, but in Capablanca's ...Qc4 variation Black has a plus score, also with a high number of draws. I haven't seen enough games in the 6.Be3 line to draw any conclusions, but the databases certainly suggest that it's well worth avoiding the ...Qc4 variation.


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Girkassa Senior Member Offline I Love ChessPublishing! Posts: 433 Joined: 04/07/07	Re: Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? Reply #4 - 01/29/09 at 10:11:19	Post Tools	Print Post
	I say equal as well. Some sources give it as slightly better for Black, which I believe is due to looking too much at the statistics. I think another reason for Black scoring well is that some White players play this against stronger players, hoping to reach either a double-edged game or a drawish ending - but then the stronger player often goes on winning the endgame anyway.


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MNb God Member Offline Rudolf Spielmann forever Posts: 10757 Location: Moengo Joined: 01/05/04 Gender:	Re: Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? Reply #3 - 01/28/09 at 23:56:07	Post Tools	Print Post
	I completely agree with JediKnight except that 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5 4.exd5 Nf6 5.Bb5+ might give White an edge. 4...Qxd5 certainly is more solid. The reason that 4...Qxd5 scores quite well is that White too often tries to win in dead equal positions.

	The book had the effect good books usually have: it made the stupids more stupid, the intelligent more intelligent and the other thousands of readers remained unchanged. GC Lichtenberg
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SWJediknight God Member Offline Alert... opponent out of book! Posts: 915 Joined: 03/14/08	Re: Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? Reply #2 - 01/28/09 at 20:08:59	Post Tools	Print Post
	Equal. Play usually continues 4.exd5 (4.Bd3?! dxe4 5.Bxe4 Nf6 loses time, 4.e5? dxc3 5.Nxc3 d4 with a large advantage for Black), and then Black can try 4...Nf6!? when White can reply with 5.Nf3 or 5.Bb5+, both of which should be about equal. More normal is 4...Qxd5 5.cxd4 Nc6. Then 6.Nf3 usually leads to a drawish ending after 6...Bg4 7.Be2 Bb4+ 8.Nc3 Bxf3 9.Bxf3 Qc4. Unless White is prepared to risk getting the king caught in the centre with 10.Be3 Bxc3+, White has to exchange queens with 10.Qb3 Qxb3 11.axb3 or 10.Bxc6+ bxc6 11.Qe2+ Qxe2 12.Kxe2. White can deviate with 6.Be3 which is also equal but keeps more pieces on the board, giving greater winning and losing chances. There's also 7.Nc3 which can lead to a more double-edged ending after 7...Bxf3, or an equal middlegame after 7...Bb4 8.a3 as given in Danish Dynamite, though I think 6.Be3 is White's best bet if White is playing for a win. I'm not sure that 3...d5 deserves an exclamation mark except from the perspective of aiming for safe equality. Objectively speaking 3...dxc3, 3...Ne7 and 3...Qe7 are probably about as good. 3...Ne7 preparing ...d5 is another way to return the pawn and equalise, while 3...dxc3 and 3...Qe7 are more double-edged, winning one or two pawns for compensation.


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Holbox Senior Member Offline Saigón Café Posts: 369 Joined: 02/08/05	Re: Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? Reply #1 - 01/28/09 at 15:53:03	Post Tools	Print Post
	More ambitious, i think, is 3..Qe7 with interesting play.

	"Ladran, luego cabalgamos", NN
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Bubu13 YaBB Newbies Offline Chess is not a science ! It is a game !! Posts: 48 Location: Marseille Joined: 11/25/04 Gender:	Is 1.e4 e5 2.d4 exd4 3.c3 d5! +=, = or =+ ? 01/28/09 at 14:55:38	Post Tools	Print Post
	Everything is in the tittle : What is the verdict, today ? Slightly better for black, for white, or equal ? When i look in the databases, i find some black wins, very few white's one, and quite a few draws. So, is =+ the logical verdict ?


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